Sarah Michelle Gellar

Interview with Writer/Director Richard Kelly

May 27 2004

On the Director’s Cut of "Donnie Darko" and "Southland Tales" The wait is over. The Director’s Cut of “Donnie Darko” premieres at the Seattle Film Festival on May 29, 2004 and passionate “Donnie Darko” fans will finally get to see the movie writer/director Richard Kelly intended to make all along. With never-before-seen visual effects and other surprises, Kelly’s original vision of “Donnie Darko” is now ready to be soaked in and analyzed by “Darko” devotees. I proudly admit I’m a “Donnie Darko” fan and I hate having my viewing experience ruined by reviews or articles that give too much away. So with the release of the Director’s Cut just a few days off, I didn’t even try to pry any spoilers out of Kelly during my one-on-one interview. If it’s specifics you want on what’s been added to the Director’s Cut, then sorry. While Kelly spoke at length about this new version and what drove him to complete a Director’s Cut at this time, this in-depth interview is pretty much spoiler-free.

Our interview was delayed by a few hours because of an important pre-production meeting for Richard Kelly’s second film, “Southland Tales,” so it’s only fitting we began by talking about that upcoming movie:

So you’ve been busy getting prepared to begin filming “Southland Tales?”

Yes, yes - the pre-production drama and excitement and anxiety (laughing). It’s like a movie coming together is like a house of cards and you hope that the wind doesn’t blow in the wrong direction. Once you have your start date, the further you get into pre-production, the more money that’s spent, the more cement blocks you have in the foundation of your house. The wind isn’t as dangerous. To make an architectural metaphor out of the whole thing (laughing).

Do you have a definite start date?

Well, the start date is shifting a tiny bit. It’s absolutely still planned for the summer, we’re just still trying to lock in a few pivotal [parts]. There are still a lot of roles that are yet to be cast and there’s a couple pivotal, starring roles that haven’t been cast that are sort of determining what the final budget is.

The magic of the formula of independent film financing is very much determined by actors and their overseas numbers and this and that. It can be a little frustrating because you have an attorney somewhere telling you what your film is worth in the marketplace, yet they haven’t read the script, they don’t know anything about the project other than who is in it and the genre. And they think they can tell you what your film is worth in the marketplace based on those elements. And yet, what about the quality of the direction and the quality of the screenplay? What about those little things? And, unfortunately, it can be a little frustrating. That’s just the process of putting together an independent film, trying to get the budget to a place where we can do what we want and need to do.

Can you confirm the cast? Is it Sarah Michelle Gellar, Seann William Scott, Kevin Smith and Jason Lee so far?

Yeah, and Amy Poehler and Tim Blake Nelson. And we’re still trying to get Janeane [Garofalo] locked in but she’s got her commitment to Air America Radio, which is definitely a priority. We’re trying to see if we can balance both for her. There’s going to be a lot more actors joining the cast soon. That’s probably only about half of the total cast, really.

Is it a bit crazy to be directing Kevin Smith in your second movie?

He and I have become really close friends. Kevin always jokes that he can’t act but if you’ve ever seen him, even outside of his films in his sort of stand-up - not stand-up comedy, it’s more him being a storyteller like on the “Evening with Kevin Smith” DVD - he really has a real charisma and I think an ability to tell a story. If you look at someone who can have a presence like that on stage, to me that’s acting.

I’m working with a lot of comedians in this film and I’m hoping to take a lot of the performers I’m working with and show audiences a new dimension, a new side to their personality, and hopefully present a different variation of someone’s persona on screen.

I think working with comedians is exciting because, while they might not have been formally trained as actors, I think that working as a stand-up comedian is one of the most frightening and daunting prospects for any artist or performer. You’re walking into a pretty dangerous and frightening environment, trying to tell jokes in front of a microphone. It’s like you’re basically stripping yourself naked up there. So I think that any performer who is brave enough to do that, I’m excited to work with them as an actor. To get a dramatic performance out of them is something that is really interesting. I think that comedians don’t necessarily need to be the one at the party with the lampshade on their head. I tell them, “I’m the director, I’m the guy with the lampshade on my head. You just do your thing and I’ll make sure that you’re funny. You don’t need to try to be funny.”

Did Jason Lee commit to the project because of Kevin Smith?

Well, it’s funny. I think that they didn’t know about the other one being involved. A friend had tipped Jason off to the screenplay. He called his agent and said he wanted to meet me. I’ve been a huge fan of his from the beginning. And then I asked Kevin to play a role around the same time, and I think it was sort of just coincidence that they both ended up being in the film. I kind of joke with Kevin that, “Wow, I might be stealing all of your old cast members from your old movies.” I really have a real fondness and appreciation for Kevin’s comedic voice. He has a very distinct voice as a writer that very few people have. He knows exactly what he’s trying to say, you know? He’s one of the funniest people you’ll ever meet.

Did you have anything to do with the design of the “Southland Tales” website?

Yes. This is only the beginning of the website. We hope that it will evolve into one of the most elaborate websites ever built to tie into a film. This is only the earliest stages of it, but it’s going to be a companion piece to the film. Kind of an interactive companion piece that will evolve as we go into production, through the release of the film, and maybe even beyond. I can’t really talk too much about it but stayed tuned for new developments soon (laughing).

Does “The Internet is the Future” saying on the site have to do with the plotline?

It can be safe to assume that the answer is yes. Pretty much everything on the website is going to have some tangent relationship on some level to the plot of the film.

I was reading on a few “Donnie Darko” message boards where some fans are a little concerned about your next movie being labeled a musical comedy. What can you say to put their minds at ease?

Well, it’s tough to describe the genre of the film. The best way I can describe it is it’s 30% comedy, 30% musical, 30% thriller, and 10% science fiction. And those percentage levels could fluctuate, to some degree, as we finish the final cut of the film. But there are musical sequences in the film, but it is not purely a musical. It is just as much a thriller, it is just as much a comedy, and it’s arguably just as much a science fiction film. It’s definitely a genre hybrid but somehow the musical thing got kind of blown out of proportion, and people just printed that it’s a musical. But it’s actually a hybrid of many different kinds of movies. I don’t know what it is about consumer culture but we want to be able to categorize everything.

Everything has to have a label.

Yeah, we want to put people in labels, we want to put people into categories and political parties and religious groups, and racial categorization and economic groups. Everything is organized into spreadsheets, like a tax return. It gets a bit absurd after a while. All of the films that I’m going to make are going to have a sampling of everything. I don’t know how to make a film that just functions in one category. My brain can’t really work that way I guess.

In another interview we did, you described “Southland Tales” as your “Pulp Fiction.” Can you elaborate on that?

I guess that was the best way to describe it. I don’t know. I’m an admirer of Quentin’s work and that might come off as sounding arrogant or something, saying that, but I would like to make a film as great as “Pulp Fiction.” I mean, that was Quentin’s second film and by no means am I trying to compare myself to him, but I feel like [this movie is] a bigger, more epic canvas than “Donnie Darko.” My hope is to be able to capture the excitement of Tarantino’s films. When you see any of Quentin’s films, when you’re watching it, you’re just on the edge of your seat because he knows the language of cinema probably better than anyone. I think there is a sense of excitement and adrenaline when you’re watching one of his films. More than anything, I guess, I’m trying to create that kind of experience for audiences.

Hopefully I can take what I did in “Darko,” and it’s been several years now and I’ve matured, and try to take my ability to the next level, really. I guess it comes more out of my fondness for Quentin’s work and me just trying to be like him (laughing). I could also say that it’s my “Brazil.” I could say that it’s my “Dr. Strangelove.” But listen, if I could ever make a film that’s even anywhere near as great as any of those films, I would be a lucky guy. Those are the three biggest influences on “Southland Tales:” “Pulp Fiction,” “Brazil,” and “Dr. Strangelove.” It’s a tall order and it’s pretty ambitious. I could fail miserably and end up with “Ishtar” (laughing).

You made a lot of compromises when you did the original cut of “Donnie Darko.” Did Newmarket give you free reign to make the movie you wanted to this time around?

Newmarket basically gave me a specific budget.

Was it what you wanted?

Yeah. You’ll never get enough money to make any movie. You’ll never have enough time and you’ll never have enough money. But you need to be grateful that you have any money at all and just deal with the amount that you’re given. Kelly Carlton, our visual effects supervisor, Sam Bauer, our editor, and David Esparza, our sound designer, all three of those guys (who are all good friends of mine) were able to come in and we were able to really get in there and do the work on the film that we needed to do in a very short window of time, and with the limited amount of money that we had. I’m definitely very happy with what we were able to accomplish.

For me, it’s not about coming in and fixing what isn’t broken. It’s more about expanding. There were definitely some plot holes and some characters arcs that weren’t fulfilled, I think, in the theatrical cut. I think we’ve been able to go in and sort of complete those arcs and also fill the plot holes with a lot of information that was there and tied into the plot. There were also blueprints for things that I wanted to put in the film that got put off to the side when we realized that we had a two-hour running time restriction and we didn’t have enough money when we were finishing the theatrical cut. It really let me go in and complete the story in more detail. It’s like I said, this by no means nullifies the theatrical cut of the film because I am very proud of the film. I think there’s sort of two versions of “Close Encounters of the Third Kind,” there’s two or maybe three versions of “Bladerunner.” There’s more than one version ultimately, I guess, of “Kill Bill.” “Brazil” had its extended cut. I feel very honored to have been given the opportunity to do this with my film. It could be that some people will always prefer the theatrical cut and that’s a valid opinion to have. It’s not like the theatrical cut will be thrown into a shredder. It’s not like the negatives are going to be shredded and put in a dumpster after this. But it’s like I’m glad to have gotten the opportunity to assemble a longer and more complete version of the film. We’ll see what people will think.

Jena Malone believes this version of “Donnie Darko” might be similar to when you originally cut the film.

By no means is it the Sundance cut. This is something far beyond the Sundance cut. Certainly you’re going to see some of the scenes that were on the DVD as deleted scenes. You’re definitely going to see some of those back in the cut, but there are also some scenes that I purposely left off the DVD. There’s also some new material that no one has seen before, in terms of some of the visual effects sequences in the film. I think what you’re also seeing is a lot of the elements, some of which appear on the website in the information within the pages of “The Philosophy of Time Travel,” along with some of the deleted scenes and the new visual effects sequences, that all organically tie the story together in a way that I believe is more elegant and more fluid and, I hope, more satisfying to audiences. The Director’s Cut sort of emerges as this science fiction epic, in a way, that was made on a very small, independent budget.

Even as I had a rough cut of the film back in the year 2000, I was sweating bullets because I realized, “Oh my God, I’m never going to be able to really tell this story in under two hours.” It became a really nightmarish process for me to whittle the film down into some semblance of cohesive order. I was really proud of the work we did to do that. I think that there are certain things that are better about the film because they are enigmatic or open-ended. And by no means do I feel that this is the kind of film that should ever be an ‘open and shut, close the book and tie the red ribbon and it’s a happy ending’ conclusion. This will never be that kind of film, even in the Director’s Cut. I felt like there were always some plot holes and some moments that might have appeared like, “Oh, he’s just trying to confuse us.” Or, “He’s just trying to be weird.” Where it was like, “No, there was really a point to all this and a logic behind it.” I couldn’t make everything clear in under two hours. It’s not about turning everything into the looking glass. It’s still an organic kind of experience but it’s one that will hopefully make a little bit more sense. It’s like maybe the “Director’s Cut” is the annotated Cliff Notes version of the film and the theatrical cut is the esoteric version. Some people may prefer things to remain completely esoteric and others may prefer for things to have a bit more of a guide through their story. It’s not about dumbing anything down. It’s about taking people on a more logical science fiction rollercoaster ride.

I think it was important for me, if I’m going to go and do a Director’s Cut, that it be something a bit more developed and a bit more defined. If I’m going to add length to the film, that it isn’t just to baffle audiences even more (laughing). Maybe they will be completely baffled, but I believe there is more of a conclusion that can be drawn from the Director’s Cut. I also believe that there is a whole new layer of mystery added to it that people will respond to. I think it just comes more out of my love for science fiction, more than anything.

Does having that three year window between cuts change the way you see things, and did it influence the Director’s Cut? Or is this the exactly the same vision for the movie you had while you were shooting it?

You know, I’d be lying if I didn’t say that the three years have allowed me to calm down and see the world with more mature eyes, and to look at the world in a way where I’ve had three years to digest the story and really decide what it means to me and ultimately what my interpretation of the story is.

Any Director’s Cut is a fundamentally selfish and narcissistic enterprise (laughing). It’s a self-indulgent endeavor more than anything. I mean, let’s call a spade a spade here. Sometimes it’s a good thing for a filmmaker to have restrictions put upon him because it forces a filmmaker to be very economical and to only include what is absolutely necessary. But I think, given the interest in this film and the ongoing debate about the mysteries of the film and a lot of people who seem to be searching for answers, the fact that Newmarket gave me this opportunity I felt this is my chance to help provide a few more answers - along with some new questions - for people.

I was very careful and I thought for a long time about what I really wanted to include in the Director’s Cut. It was with much deliberation and debate for me. Every decision was made with great care and great concern. To me, there was nothing superfluous or unnecessary that I added. To me, every single new frame, every new piece of sound design and music and visual effects, has a very specific purpose and idea behind it - and is very important to the whole puzzle. People might not get it, they might not understand what I’m trying to do with the Director’s Cut after one viewing, but I think that hopefully, after repeated viewings, the Director’s Cut will open up new doors of interpretation. (Laughing) Either that or they’ll just say, “F**k you. We like the theatrical cut better.” But that’s fine, too. I think there can be two versions that exist simultaneously.

That ‘repeated viewing comment brings up something. Why isn’t this just going straight to DVD as a Director’s Cut?

Given all the midnight screenings in theaters that have occurred over the past two years in many different cities, there seems to be a real desire for audiences to see this on the big screen. A lot of people missed out on seeing it on the big screen and never got that opportunity, and I think Newmarket realizes that.

From a purely financial standpoint, for Newmarket this is a win-win situation. Even if it only does very moderate business in theaters, it provides them with a new ancillary DVD revenue stream. Just to clarify, I’m not going to see any of that money so this isn’t about money for me at all.

You didn’t negotiate a new deal for the Director’s Cut?

No, no, no. That ain’t going to happen (laughing). Nobody really makes any money on their first film. I get paid down the road and I’m happy for that. But I think it’s kind of a no-brainer for them to do the Director’s Cut. After the premiere in Seattle, they are going to open it up the following Wednesday for a long five day weekend in about six-eight theaters. I think that whatever the per-screen average is will determine how wide they go in July. It could be that they just do it in LA and NY in July. I think they want to be conservative. I think a lot of the fans of the original film will show up and hopefully will bring their friends who haven’t seen it.

I’m really most excited to see if the film has the ability to kind of cross-over more into the mainstream. I think that’s Newmarket’s hope. There are a lot of teenagers who have embraced the film and the teenage market is pretty gigantic. It’ll be interesting to see if that market can expand beyond the very specific alternative teenage audience, to see if this film could become something that the “American Pie” crowd could embrace. Who knows? It may never reach beyond cult status. I’m proud of the cult status badge of honor, but I also believe counterculture art invading the mainstream allows for more counterculture art to exist on a greater scale. Sometimes you want your favorite song not to be overplayed on the radio and you want your favorite T-shirt - you don’t want a bunch of other people wearing that T-shirt because then it’s not cool anymore. But the unfortunate reality is that movies cost a lot of money to make and it’s been tough for me to get another project off the ground simply because a studio head looks at the spreadsheet on “Darko” and sees, “Oh, that made half a million dollars. Forget it. This guy’s got crummy numbers.”

I want to reiterate too that I didn’t get into this to rip off the fans and to try to sell out to the mainstream. I honestly feel like there was always a more complete version of the film that I wanted to do. And we could have done this in 10 years. I always knew one day I’d get a chance to probably do a Director’s Cut. And we could have decided, “No, let’s wait 10 years and then do it.” But it seemed like there was an appetite for it and I had a window this spring to really work on it. We figured [we’d] take advantage of the opportunity now. It hasn’t really been done before. There isn’t really any kind of template for this kind of release. It could end up kind of being a modest, break-even situation for [Newmarket]. If it is, then great. I’m just happy that I got the chance.

Did any of your “Donnie Darko” cast have any input or talk to you about the Director’s Cut?

No. I know that Holmes Osborne and Katherine Ross always regretted that their scenes were dropped. I felt their pain because I regretted it, too. I had to cut things to get under two hours. But I’m really excited for Holmes Osborne because I think he’s an extraordinary actor. Eddie Darko - that role you’re going to really see is greatly expanded in the Director’s Cut. You’re going to see more of Maggie Gyllenhaal. Even Drew Barrymore, I think her character was kind of compromised in the theatrical cut and you didn’t really understand who she was and where she was coming from. I’m really excited and proud of Drew and her performance in the film. Her character is given a lot more depth and a clearer arc in the Director’s Cut. I’m really grateful for all of her support. She’s going to be up in Seattle, which really means a lot.

Does the Director’s Cut help you put closure to the film?

Oh yeah. And believe me, I’m dying for closure. I can’t wait to talk about my other projects. I’m very flattered and it thrilled me to the bone to think that people are still talking about this film because it boosts my self-esteem and gives me more confidence and helps me to not sell myself down the river and try to make something completely down the middle. I fear as I get older, when I’ve got bigger bills to pay, I’ve got to start compromising. I’ve got to go do that really mainstream, down-the-middle film. It may arrive very soon but, unfortunately, it’s all about if you can generate box office revenue for the studios, that’s where you can gain your freedom. They will give you the key to the Luxury Washroom. The Executive Washroom key will be yours if you can generate revenue for them. Then you get the freedom. If audiences want to see more films like “Darko,” just on a bigger scale, then it’s all about supporting the Director’s Cut. That really helps for that to happen. It’s really that simple. This is a business and people are looking at a spreadsheet and if you’re not high enough on that spreadsheet, then you’re not going to get to do what you want to do.