From Sympatico.ca/jenoff
Angel
Please don’t bring back Angel
By Jenoff
Tuesday 24 February 2004, by Webmaster
Please don’t bring back Angel
I know this isn’t a popular stance, at least not with the people likely to be reading a web site largely devoted to Buffy and Angel, but hear me out before you start sending me hate mail.
Remember when Angel wanted to bring back Doyle Parting Gifts? Remember when Dawn tried to bring back Joyce in Forever? Remember when Willow wanted to bring back Tara in Villains? The point got made time and time again that bringing back the dead is a bad idea. Hey, the last two seasons of Buffy were almost entirely about the problems caused by bringing her back.
Now remember the final season of Roseanne, the final season of Mad About You, the final couple of seasons of X-Files. Is that the way you want Angel to go?
I know what you’re going to say. Angel is still young, only 5 seasons. Buffy went 7. It did, but Angel isn’t Buffy. The quality has been spotty this season and last. New characters have substituted for new ideas. It’s still watchable, still fun, but what would it be like a year or two from now. Optimists think it’ll be great. But what if it isn’t. What if we get a year of awful episodes and that’s the way the Buffyverse ends. Is that really what you want? And it’s far more likely. Shows rarely get better, they almost always get worse.
And if Angel does come back - how and where? On UPN where Star Trek can barely hack it anymore and where Buffy withered. On some low rent cable channel which will cut the budget even further and probably demand more action and fewer ideas (didn’t anyone else watch Crusade). The best idea I’ve heard has been for direct to DVD. But if you could make the episodes for a bargain basement $500,000 a piece, make a 20 episode season, charge enough for a DVD to gross $10 per sale (after reproduction, shipping, advertising, and retailer’s cut), and then sell a million copies (much more than they do now) you’d just break even.
Remember 1999? That’s the year Angel debuted. Here’s a list of some other shows that were on the air that autumn:
Futurama
The X-Files
Roswell
Dark Angel
Buffy the Vampire Slayer
Seven Days
Star Trek: Voyager
Charmed
Freakylinks
Level 9
I may be missing a few, but I think that’s close to a complete list of network fantasy and science fiction shows. Five years later, only two of them remain on the air: Angel and Charmed. And God alone knows why Charmed is still there. The fact is fantasy and science fiction seem not to be in vogue any more. The current incarnation of Star Trek is on the verge on cancellation. Firefly couldn’t even last a season. Tru Calling is dead man walking. Jake 2.0 is already in the grave. It’s not that these shows are awful (although some are) it’s that the audience has shrunk. It likely will grow again, medical series and detective series go in and out of fashion and fantasy and science fiction are no different. But this isn’t the right time. Angel is a dinosaur. It’s almost the last of its kind. Let it die with dignity.
And while I’m ranting, let me add a coda about Sarah Michelle Gellar. A lot of fans are angry over her apparent refusal to appear on Angel and help close off the series. I note some fans have taken to dissing Gellar and belittling her talent. She is not, at least not yet, a great actress. Nobody on Buffy or Angel is a great actor or actress. Many of them, likely most, will never go on to greater success. That’s the way of things. Gellar put in 7 years as Buffy. As title stars of tv shows go, she was remarkably well behaved. She didn’t sit out for more money or go around griping about her costars. She never phoned in her performance. She did her job and did it well for the life of the show. Now she wants to move on to other things. I can’t blame her. As an actress, the Buffy role will haunt her for a long time and the more she is associated with it the harder it will be for her to find decent roles that aren’t a reprise of the slayer. If she doesn’t want to play Buffy again, at least not this soon, that’s her business. She doesn’t owe her fans anything more than the 7 years of hard work she’s already given them.
Got a comment? Send me mail 51
Forum messages
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24 February 2004 22:08, by SARAH UK
I CAN KINDA AGREE WITH SOME ASPECTS OF THE ARTICLE, HOWEVER I THINK WE NEED A CLOSURE THAT BUFFY’S FINAL EPISODE NEVER GAVE US, SO MANY QUESTIONS UNANSWERED; XANDER AND WILLOW SUFFERED WITH A LACK OF SCREEN TIME IN SERIES 7 WHICH DIDNT HELP!!
ALSO TO SAY NONE OF THE ACTORS ARE GREAT IS HARSH AND UNFAIR - ALYSON HANNIGAN AMAZING ACTRESS!! CHARISMA CARPENTER FABULOUS, CHRISTIAN KANE ALREADY MINORED IN SEVERAL FILMS. THE SHOW HAS A LOT A TALENT AND I AM BIAST BUT ALL THE ACTORS ARE GREAT!!!
I THINK IF JOSS CAN ’COMPLETE’ ALL THE UNDERLYING STORYLINES IN THE NEXT 7 EPISODES PEOPLE WILL BE HAPPY BUT I CANNOT SEE IT HAPPENING!!!
ALSO AS FAR AS SARAH GOES SHE DOESNT OWE HER FANS ANYTHING BUT I THINK IF JOSS WANTS HER THERE IN THE LAST HOUR SHE DOES OWE IT TO HIM AND DAVID!!
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24 February 2004 23:10, by seth
hey thats stupid, angels been on as a spinoff of buffy, they basically turned it into buffy once she left the air, the show never really was buffy (think about it mediforically) it was about teens and the drama (as much as i hate that word) of going throught school and dealing with being differnt... alot of people could relate to it, (but buffy was over exagerated) we liked it for the characters and plot throught the season, when spike was moved to angel the ratings went way up, we love spike come on, some of us loved connor and oz too and (riley) but we didnt need them as characters on the show (no matter how cool they were) they were there just to move the plot along, now as angels being cancled im looking back at the plot lines, and notice what.. this is just the same as when they introduced spike on buffy, the plots are changing,, causeing a few viewers to hate the show and more to love it, you have your opinion but i think you need to think of the possability of angel seaon 6, they really could keep it going for atleast 3 more years, (sadly...) angel wont last longer after that because vamps dont age.. but james and david do.
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24 February 2004 23:34, by T
You are now my favorite person ever.
I’m so tired of how everyone’s spent this past season complaining about the quality, then acting so surprised and upset that it was cancelled. Don’t get me wrong, I love the show, I’ve been watching since the first episode. But I wish people would just let it go in peace. This isn’t Firefly, which wasn’t even given a chance. Five years is a damn good run, especially for the type of show Angel is.
And the bashing Sarah thing makes me sick. She has every right to want a break from the character. It’s been seven years of her life, and she deserves a rest from it. She never said she wouldn’t come back to the role ever, just that she needs time. It’s hardly her fault Angel was cancelled before she was ready to come back, while she was already committed to other projects.
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24 February 2004 23:45, by Aurelius
The difference that must be pointed out between Angel now and the examples you give of Doyle/Joyce being brought back is that Angel is not dead yet, and in the eyes of the creator was not meant to die at least for another year. Therefore it is not the situation you have with the X-Files or Rosanne (but, hey, the X-Files was never cancelled, was it!) and the last season of Buffy was one of the most crowd-pleasing series they’ve done since season 3. Let us not forget that Buffy arguably lost its way in terms of seasonal narrative, despite some brilliant individual episodes, in season 4, and season 5 was hardly overwhelmingly magnificent either. But then we have season 6. Which was, for the much part, Not Very Good. Season 7 was a magnificent return to form, and proof that a show can go out in a manner befitting it.
Another point. I cite the example of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. This was probably the most daring, epic and fundementally clever that Star Trek has been, but it took until season 5 for it to get that good. Seasons 6 and 7 were arguably the most dramatic seasons of any series of Star Trek, ever. Angel could have gone the same way, especially with the addition of Spike, who, as ’Damage’ showed, is a magnificent dramatic character.
A further point. You cite those examples of series that were on air at the same time as Angel, but forget to mention how much longer they’d been on air than Angel. Also how many of them were allowed the end they wanted.
In conclusion, I find many arguments you use deeply logically flawed.
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25 February 2004 00:30, by Anonymous
What?? Non of them are good actors? Are you actually serious? That’s really mean! RUDE!
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25 February 2004 00:32, by SAVE ANGEL!
To me, this is a ridiculous argument... if you can call it that. Your comparisons are apples and oranges and completely illogical. Main thing: when did "Angel" die? You can’t compare death story lines of Buffy with a metaphorical "death" of programming on the WB. It just doesn’t make any sense; what’s your point? Don’t overstay your welcome?? The huge fan support should indicate that “Angel” has not come close to that. And if you have such little faith in Joss Whedon that he won’t give us a quality product throughout, then maybe you shouldn’t be watching "Angel" to begin with.
Every episode you call "spotty" others love. After reading your opinion here, I don’t put much in what you have to say, mainly because you are trying to explain it with things that are completely inexplicable. Buffy dying, Tara’s death??? What does that have to do with anything? Are you talking about Spike? He hardly falls into the Buffy dark, post-death category. What does that mean? Maybe you have a better point but just have no clue how to relate it... I just don’t see it.
"The fact is fantasy and science fiction seem not to be in vogue any more." Who are you to tell me or anyone else what we want to see or what is "in vogue". I see this as the most intelligent show on television, which is why it should be saved. It’s original, unique entertainment with a good message throughout. We have been blessed by Whedon’s genius, and if you don’t see that, then flip the channel and watch little people marry Amish boys on a deserted island.
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25 February 2004 00:36, by Spicywings
This has to be the most ridiculous logic I’ve ever read. I’m not even going to attempt to address all the "remember when. . . " stuff because it’s totally irrelevant. As for Buffy resting in peace, my opinion of SMG is that she should stay in her world of ScoobyDoo where she belongs. Bringing her back on Angel for the "last show" would probably make me not watch it.
As for giving the show another year or even two, I think it’s totally plausible. This season has seen a new format, additional cast, and a whole different outlook. Yes, I’m a Spike fan --- and I believe that the connections that are beginning to be made to the Angel/Spike relationship are immensely important and exciting.
Let’s be honest. The cancellation of Angel has nothing to do with the show being bad, bad performances, or the like — it has to do with businessmen sitting around trying to decide what we need to watch. They think Charmed and reality shows are what we need. Actually, they think Charmed and reality shows will fill their bank accounts more than Angel. As James has said at several cons, it takes intelligent fans to watch and "get" Buffy/ Angel/ Firefly/ all things Whedon. Obviously, the WB suits don’t fit that description.
I’m tired of turning on the TV and seeing mindless drivel --- I don’t consider watching people eat worms, or rent-a-spouse, or flaunt their horniness and lack of sexual prowess entertainment. It’s pathetic. Sure Angel and Buffy are "fantasy" shows, but they’re well written, well presented, well performed, and in my opinion Joss and ME have given us more in the way of entertainment and thought-provoking story-lines than anything I’ve seen on TV before.
So, yes, I’ll join whatever campaigns are out there to keep Angel the Series, and Joss Whedon, the writing genius on my TV.
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25 February 2004 01:04, by DP
I don’t think that this season has been ’spotty’ at all, far from it.
And Joss probably wasn’t expecting this season to be the last so the storylines aren’t really tailored for a final season, but if he had another season to finish Angel he could probably wrap up all the characters storylines better than he is doing now for this season
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25 February 2004 01:09, by Anonymous
Wow.... That was a really dumb letter. SMG doesn’t owe us anything?, she needs to complete her character and she can do that with the end of angel. And how is Angel getting cancelled dying with dignity? Dying with diginity is a show ending on the writers terms and the ability to finish the story fully. I think Angel needs one more season, then it can die with diginity. The actors/actresses on the show may not move on to greater things but they are still amazing at their jobs making them amazing actors/ actresses. I think you are a very rude person who needs to keep their opinion to their self because no one else want to hear it.
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25 February 2004 01:19, by Fraser
Some very good points were made. I personally like the idea of Angel going to DVD only, i mean hey going to dvd is better than no Angel at all right?
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25 February 2004 01:31, by txjmfan
"It’s almost the last of it’s kind." You should be referring to it being well-written, intelligent television that you don’t literally feel your brain cells disintegrating while you’re watching (aka Charmed). That is why everyone is fighting for this show. Not because it’s one of the last of the sci-fi shows...but because it is an awesome show that still has stories to tell.
One other thing...."Nobody on Buffy or Angel is a great actor or actress." Excuse me? Were you watching the same series I was? A great actor is not just one that has commercial success. It’s one who knows his craft...like James Marsters...Anthony Stewart Head...Alyson Hannigon...Alexis Denisof.
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25 February 2004 02:02, by Anonymous
I think I am going to throw-up. The show isn’t even over yet and you have put a stake in it and buried it. This show is alot more important to some people than you realize. Just because you believe that it will be bad if Angel is somehow brought back for a 6th season does not mean it is fated to be. You cited shows that didn’t do well in their last few seasons, but you forgot to mention the ones that did. Some shows like Star Trek: The Next Generation, did poorly in their ratings for a season and then made up for it in the next. Some shows don’t end because they are doing poorly, but because the actors are ready to move on to new projects. Angel is not one of those shows. The actors on Angel would very much like to continue working together on the show. I read your remarks out of respect for SMG, but what about your respect for David, Alexis, and the others who worked so hard to make not only their show but her show a success? I think you owe them your support as well. You can’t predict whether or not it will get better or worse, you are not omnipotent. I personally have enjoyed every episode of Angel since its beginning, but even if you are one of those people who watched for awhile and then got sick of it, I feel you owe it to the cast to support them and do everything you can to keep the show going. This is how these people make a living, and not everyone is SMG with several gigs lined up for her. Suck up your fears and back up those people that have given up years for your entertainment.
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25 February 2004 03:12, by monique
Angel is the number one show I love to watch the most on Wednesday. The WB could have cancelled something esle like everwood or something or at least swiched the networts. Like they could have changed it to UPN 20. I just want the show to have a sixth season or at least the return of Buffy as a guest or you know they can do both.I hope Joss Whedon thinks of another way to get Angel back on the air or at least another show JAMES MARSTERS AND DAVID BOREANAZ would like to do. I hope the show picks up so that it can stay on the air.Please,Please Please!!! THANK
YOU
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25 February 2004 03:42, by Stev
I’ve never doubted Joss’s integrity before. Surely to let the show die with dignity is to let it end when Joss is ready to end the story? What dignity is there in a studio exec who’s probably never even seen the show deciding when it’s fit to end?
You certainly make some good points and the term ’jumping the shark’ comes to mind, but I think you’re off the mark if you think Angel has jumped the shark.
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25 February 2004 03:50, by Heather
Puhleeze, spare us these rants. I hope I never see another article such as this on buffy.nu. We need positive thinking, not negativity.
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25 February 2004 03:52, by bloke
I kind of agree, though i’d like to see how they finish this season, then and only then will i know if they can keep it alive or not, it really depends, this season hasn’t been anything notworthy in my opinion, but it must be quite hard to bring it back from the season before that the characters remember hardly anything of, if Whedon and pals can fix this i think angel can go on, but it really depends how they finish this season...
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25 February 2004 03:52, by The New Slayer
I totaly agree with you. Let the show die, while is still kind of good. To be honesty this season of Angel has been boring and just a few episodes are good. I think Joss and his crew are out of ideas for the show. The best thing we all fans of Buffy and Angel is let the show die with some dignity.
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25 February 2004 04:21, by Vince
This letter is filled with "what if"
"What if the sixth season wouldnt be good?, what if a new network ruins it? What if I had a brain?"
"there are no good actors on Buffy and Angel"
What a f***** ’h*. Watch the damn season 6 of Buffy and tell me Allyson Hannigan aint a good actress. Watch Angel season 4 and tell me Charisma Carpenter and Alexis Denisof arent good actors. Hell WATCH EVERY SCENES WITH ANGELUS AND TELL ME HE ISNT A GOOD ACTOR!!!
What a load of shit! Send her hate mails, she deserves it. I bet she isn’t even a fan of the show.
See online : http://www.buffy.nu/forum.php3?id_a...
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25 February 2004 04:32, by Bryan
Although I agree with some of yours opinions, Buffy ended strong cause it chose to go out, these shows that you are talking about, they only got bad because they didn’t have many ideas left, Angel was already set for a season 6, so it’s doubtful it will be bad, Angel SHOULD be brought back & Smile Time was definitely a reason why. There have been so many positive things to Angel this season, & in all seasons. Bringing in one of the best & toughest bad guys last season, The Beast, & of course, Angelus, plus the addition of Spike this season, the only thing I could complain about is Cordelia not being there, but I won’t get into that. Angel is still a strong show without her, & I think they have alot of talent in their cast. Plus, Charisma lives on, so I can see her in other projects... hopefully.
2nd of all, I don’t want to watch reality shows, I like American Idol, but that’s as close as I can get to reality, Survivor shows are just getting tired, all these law shows, most of them are alright, but they get dull after a while, they cancelled Dark Angel, one of the best shows on tv too, Buffy ended, now they want to cancel Angel, they already cancelled Firefly, how much damage do they want to do to Joss, & the fans? The only thing left is sitcoms, seeming as I don’t like Scifi, so, Angel needs to come back, it is such a smart show, we need more of that, instead of brainless soaps, how about the Osbournes? How can that get renewed? I just don’t get it, I really don’t. We got 6 good actors, DB is one of the best out there, I wouldn’t be going overboard if I called him the BEST actor in HOLLYWOOD. Please, bring back Angel, on a different network or whatever, we need Angel!! Everyone, help save the BEST show on TV!!
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25 February 2004 05:19, by Berry
"Nobody on Buffy or Angel is a great actor or actress"....I just could not let this remark pass. James Marsters is a GREAT actor. I am 56 years old and have been to many plays and watched many movies and tv programs in my time,and I have rarely been as moved or as mesmerized as I have been by some of Mr. Marsters performances...the episode where he reveals to Buffy that he has a soul and the scene ends with him draped on a cross...unbelievably heart-breaking. I feel privileged to have had the opportunity to watch the character of "Spike" grow,develop and transform as it has. I am sorely disappointed that I will no longer have that to look forward to each week.
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25 February 2004 06:32, by Loser
To me, Buffy should ends in season 5 but if that’s the case, we wouldn’t have ’Once More With Feeling’. So, it is a hard choice. Buffy season 6 & 7 suffers because Joss & others are spread too thin. This is not the case for Angel now, with Firefly & Buffy out of the picture. Also, ending Angel is particularly hard to swallow because Season 5 is not only a continuation but also a new opening. There are tons of storylines to wrap up & just not enough time. Unlike Buffy, the show is stronger than ever.
However, I agree that Angel should not move to UPN because UPN is not right for this type of show. There is bound to be great sacrifice in budget & creativity. I rather have Angel end now with a bang than to have 1 or 2 season of zombie like existence.
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25 February 2004 06:45, by Mark Benny
Intersting Idea. This isn’t hate mail and I can understand where you are coming from. I do, though, disagree with you about one point. That the quality of the show this season has been "spotty". In my opinion, that’s just nonsense. I love the way the show has been progressing and even though you are correct about shows deteriorating in quality, It hasn’t happened yet on this particcular show. If it was, Joss would probably be the first to put it out to pasture (although I doubt he would admit to that)
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25 February 2004 07:02, by Anonymous
This year’s Angel is practically a new show. I haven’t enjoyed a Joss Whedon show so much since Buffy season 5 or Angel season 2. There are many stories left to tell.
The actors on this show are wonderful. So much better than the average cast. Want to make a bet we won’t hear from them? The praise the’ve received from critics has been well deserved. They’d do well in any medium. (Of all the nonsense I’ve heard in the last week, that these are average actors is about the cherry on the cake.)
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25 February 2004 07:04, by Loser
Right! This season is excellent. Each one might have their favorite episode, like Why We Fight is mine but I know lots of fans hate it. That’s exactly a good show should be like — thought provoking but address to each person in different way. What bugs me is that WB is cutting their best show instead of their worst. WB should count their blessing that they have a show that so many of us want to see. As for Buffy, I don’t care if SMG returns. Buffy is out of everyone’s life for a long time. The storyline is best kept hanging as no way Joss can resolve it well in short time.
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25 February 2004 07:25, by eturnal20@hargray.com
Really convincing but uh in case you all have forgotten smg had problems with alot of the buffy staff and even freddy prinze jr spoke out about that .alyssan hanigan and her had problems for a while now about her saying all the movies she was going to do after buffy cause i remember reading it and her own husband said that didnt want to do a season 8 because of the problems.when is the last great movie that freddy has been in i know what you did last summer ? if she knew she didnt wanna do it anymore why not kill her with spike at the end of buffy and send her back to heaven and be done with this but no instead she has screwed up the series even more because she doesnt wanna come back to do for her own selfish reasons . she had problems right along with the cast probley except ffor james or he just knows to keep his mouth shut. David Boreanez even stated how he did his part why cangt she at least do hers personally i think her husband is a charity case he hasnt been in any great movies in the last six years .Freddy probley doesnt like that she was supposed to come back for romantic reasons in the storyline . lets face it she not exactly beautiful i mean she looks ok but she is way too thin . you people are like sheep on this site . one person does somthing then its all follow the leader. im out and in conclusion SMG And Hubby Are selfish B*sterds.
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25 February 2004 10:37, by Tessa
I agree totally. I mean i do want Angel to go on and I think all the people who dissed Sarah are morons.
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25 February 2004 11:28, by J
But the thing is, Angle started off Season 5 with a new beginning, a beginning i thought was going to last at least 2 seasons, just until season 6. that’s what i felt season 5 opened up Angel to. it seemed pointless to have this new beginning and then get cut down.
See online : http://angel-btvs.co.uk
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25 February 2004 11:53, by aceron99
This was one of the most bizarre comments I’ve ever read from a supposed "Buffy/Angel" fan.
The message: Don’t try to save the show, because a sixth season MIGHT be bad. ???!!! Talk about pessimism. Calling for the show to remain cancelled because you believe as-yet-uncreated episodes will suck is addle-brained, dimwitted.
Your remarks represent everything the show ISN’T about. If you don’t want a sixth season, fine. Don’t watch it. Pretty simple.
But there are 4,000,000 people out there who apparently DO want it, because they watch every week.
Furthermore, your comments that Sarah Michelle Gellar and David Boreanaz aren’t good actors pretty much seal my belief that you were never a fan to begin with.
Please go away.
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25 February 2004 11:54, by Djungelurban
The moral has been "don’t resurrect something that’s dead" and not "kill something that alive and is dobng great". I mean, did you even watch "Smile Time". It was a fantastic episode. All episodes this season, besides from TCToNC, has been more or less great. One episode isn’t a problem, every season has it’s bad seed in any show (even Buffy S6 had Doublemeat Palace). This show has many good seasons to go, it’s far from over. And to see your personal season displayed as truth is kinda of sickening. Let us decide for ourselves if the show is ready to go.
If you’re so scared that the show might become bad in later season, then just stop watching. I don’t care if you watch, honestly. There are millions of fans outhere that still will watch and love the show. We know that Joss Whedon will do great things for it because he is a great writer.
Finally, there is a difference between a great actor/actress and a famous actor/actress. Someone like Sandra Bullock could very well be considered a famous actress, but even though I like the girl, she not very good. Atleast not better then several people in the Buffycast, and especially not Alyson.
PS. Buffy NEVER withered. DS.
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25 February 2004 13:01, by Anonymous
How can anyone say that the last season (4) of angel was not great? It was the BEST EVER SEASON in the buffyverse!!! (If not the best season of any show EVER). They managed to involve and develop ALL of the main characters in a season that was continuously exciting and suprising. On top of that there were excellent (and meaningful) guest appearances (Willow and Faith). There was not a single episode that was not brilliant or better. (Can anyone think of one?) As for the current season, they have done extremely well considering that they were FORCED to change to a stand-alone episode format. (Stupid WB!!!). Even with this creative handicap the cast and crew have made some fantastic episodes (Lineage, Destiny, Soul Purpose, Damage, You’re Welcome,SmileTime),making this season potentially one of the best. I know that given the chance, this show could go way beyond even 7 seasons (ie. length of buffy), and i would watch every episode.
In summary, I HATE THE W-f******-B !!!!
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25 February 2004 15:14, by Andy M
I have to agree with the people who said that your arguement is completely ridiculous. Whether it is your intention or not, it really does sound like you don’t like the show.
As already stated, your opening of the article meant absolutely nothing. Attempting to draw an incongruous analogy between fictional events in Buffy and a ’real life’ event of Angel’s cancellation.
You then call Angel ’spotty’ and imply that the last few seasons of Buffy were better than the last few seasons of Angel, which, in my opinion, is completely the other way round!
Finally, you question where the show would go if it were given another season... Well, all I can say to you, is Spike. He’s only just joined the show, he’s got hundreds of potential storylines in him. The question as to whether it is he or Angel who (as Spike would say) "gets to become a real boy again" could in itself sustain a multitude of episodes, and what about ’The First’? ’The First’ wasn’t just in Sunnydale, it is everywhere. Surely that could give a number of decent episodes.
What about the Powers that Be and the Wolfram and Hart big bosses? The white room? Eve? Connor? So many decent storylines in the current and previous series could be explored a lot more thoroughly in another season. There is just too much to wrap up properly in what is left of the current season.
Lastly, Sarah Michelle Gellar owes her Buffy fans a hell of a lot (forgive the pun). Buffy allowed her to become a movie actress, it gave her that chance. The very least she could do is return for the season finale, or the last couple of episodes. It would bring the Spike-Angel relationship to a head. It would be the perfect ending.
I just don’t see how anyone who likes Angel can want to see it die?
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25 February 2004 15:19, by Andy M
Furthermore, you said: "Nobody on Buffy or Angel is a great actor or actress."
I think James Marsters might be a little insulted by that, seeing as how he is a classicaly trained actor who has been acting for years on-stage.
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25 February 2004 15:52, by Josefina
I’m agree with you, i really like the show, but, the time for this show is over, because i want to see a good final, now, no a larger history with awful final . . .
Is time for the show,
please don’t bring back angel.
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25 February 2004 16:34, by Anonymous
The show isn’t dead yet. Thats stupid of you to even say.
Just my 2cents :)
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25 February 2004 16:50, by slain
You make some interesting points, and I admit I’m inclined to side with you, if only be on the side of those who can argue rationally. I do agree about Sarah Michelle Gellar, though I would argue that having gone through so much with her character she is a "great" actress.
Still, I can’t agree with the basic point of your article! Last season was patchy, but I found "Smile Time" to be such a blast of good old Buffy that I wouldn’t want to see the show cancelled, if only for one such episode per season.
Also I can’t agree with the comparison you make (at least of the shows I’ve seen) - the age old X-files analogy has never worked for me, in any sense. The X-files was a show about mystery, and about sexual tension between two characters. It was a two season show, three at best, because once either the mystery or the tension are resolved, the show dies. Once we knew for certain that aliens were real, the show was over. Angel is far more complex.
Maybe Star Trek is a better comparison - I haven’t seen much beyond TNG and the original series, but I gather its failing was a lack of creative direction and input from the original creators. On Angel, we’re seeing more input from Joss, not less, and while last season did lose direction, I find this season to be refeshing and original in the way that I don’t expect from Angel as much as I did from BtVS.
Spike and Harmony aren’t "new" characters, after all, and they’re not gimmicks. Spike’s resurrection was rather half-assed as a concept, and his manner since then has somewhere devalued the end of BtVS, but in the context of Angel alone, he’s a vital new part of the (slightly overstuffed) cast. It’s probably worth keeping Angel going just to keep James Marsters on TV.
I’m optimistic, though I have to admit to having much lower expectations of Angel than I did of BtVS - maybe this is why the "decline in quality" bothers me less. I don’t see such a sharp divide between the brilliant and the kinda sucky that I did with BtVS. In some ways I think Angel is an easier steered ship - it has such a weight of rich history, it’s hard to go wrong. Give it another season, I say!
See online : Slain by Buffy
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25 February 2004 18:30, by Spike-N-Beba
Charmed, One Tree Hill and Angel is the best shows in the WB. I have to say that Angel is the best of all. Its not dead, it just needs some ideas. I bet if you were to bring more Buffy cast in the show it would get better. Look at Spike. It has made the show even greater. Dont think that it is dead cause its not.
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25 February 2004 20:40, by E. Roux
I’m hoping that this was just a clever ploy from your side to get people riled up and talking, coz if you really believe that it would be better for fans to stop trying to get Angel another couple of seasons there’s something seriously wrong with you. I can’t imagine TV without anything Whedon. I have complete faith in his brilliance - the guy could make a tenth season spectacular.
As for the cast not being great actors - get real. To play a character created by Whedon you gotta know your stuff. They might not all have been great when they started, but that was due to lack of experience and even then they were pretty damn good. The incredible talent was always there. And by now every single one of them has proved themselves. You try making people believe you’re a slayer or a vamp.
And as far as SMG goes - it would be common courtesy for her to come back if she’s needed and I’m sure if it’s up to her she will. I don’t think she’s the kind of person who would forget where she came from or who helped her to get where she is today. But if she’s not available she’s not available. There’s nothing she can do about that.
I’ve learnt more about storytelling from Joss Whedon in the past seven years than I ever thought possible and that’s something I’ll always be grateful for. I just wish it didn’t have to stop.
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26 February 2004 19:30, by Gem
Okay, I won’t go into most of it because I’m extremely biased, I would do anything to get Angel to stay on the air...
But i have to comment on the remark that the actors and actressed on Buffy and Angel are not ’great’ actors. I’d like to find much better? Charisma, Eliza, Alexis, James, all of them are stunning performers. Glenn Quinn was a great actor. Their skills are so amazing, and that is why I have laughed, smiled, mourned and cried with them for so many years.
The show might do better finishing on a high, I don’t know. I think that it is at such an amazing point now that its ridiculous to finish it, especially not when Joss and the cast dont seem to want it to be over.
But the actors and actresses are great and deserve the praise that they have worked so hard for.
So remember, save Angel :)
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26 February 2004 20:27, by DS
I do not agree with your aticle, i remember reading something like that after season 5 of Buffy aswell. "please dont let it go on cause it might end up pathetic" ..i think that was BS then and its BS now. I think season 5 is great, they havent made more than one bad episode this season (The Cautionary Tale Of Numero Cinco) and they have changed the show enough so it could go on for years still. You dont end a series because it might start to suck. I say the chanse is way greater that they would keep the good episodes coming.
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27 February 2004 01:21, by Lord Legato Deathscythe
Personally, I think there is a lot of life left in Angel. I’ve seen series come and go, and I’ve seen the fall of some series from greatness to crap and vise versa. Angel had the benifit when it started of having a main character everyone was already aquinted with and liked. Unlike the mentioned Crusade, which tried to carry on the story of Babylon 5 and failed miserably. The series isn’t as was put so aptly in on e of the lines from Smile Time, "The guy hiding in the shadows with a blood habit and 200 years of psychic bagage."
... wait, it is. BUt that’s why we love it!
So, if we do end up without a new season of Angel, I shalll simply keep a watch out for antyhing that Joss Weadon puts out over the years.
Reality TV and pick a mate shows aren’t doing it for me.
If I don’t get a season 6, I may just start a written season 6 and do as I did for my other fandom. If anyone is interested email me.
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27 February 2004 05:37, by Edward
I understand, and even partly agree, with the sentiments expressed here. A show cannot go on forever - actors age, for one thing, and those who are playing vampires can’t afford to let that happen too visibly. However, the show should be allowed to follow its own dynamics and end naturally, in a way that satisfies those dynamics - not be cut off with loose plot threads flailing around everywhere. Angel might appropriately end after another season or two, but it is not time for it to end yet.
As for those people who think the actors on ’Buffy’ and ’Angel’ aren’t great - what do they want, blood? The skill the cast-members on both shows have displayed episode after episode for eight years now is outstanding! Name another show that can claim so many and so talented actors working at it for so long!
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27 February 2004 07:54, by Maniac
We love Angel because:
1. Vampires are cool.
2. The actors on Angel are hot and brilliant.
3. The writers on Angel are talented.
4. It’s produced (and everything else) by Joss "The Man" Whedon.
5. My parents watch it too.
6. My friends and I download it illegally from the net because we can’t wait to see it and we live in Australia and they’re a little slow here.
7. It’s funny.
8. It’s our last available connection with the Buffyverse.
9. We love crossovers (cmon SMG and AH!)
10. And finally, no other show apart from Buffy has had me so hooked like a maniac where I even go out and buy the dvds just for the special features.
In short, Angel is a great show and if this Jordan Levin is such a pratt that he can’t even figure out that his stupid Dark Shadows is doomed before it even airs...then go on Levin! I bloody well dare you to pull that off cause between you and me mate...you’re gonna be out a job very soon you dumbass!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thank you and Goodnight.
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27 February 2004 08:34, by Anonymous
I agree but, Angel is not yet dead, its dieing! And as with people with diseases they can be saved!!!
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27 February 2004 09:24, by dashboardprophet
Jenoff, you make some good points. I’d like to see ’Angel’ continue but what’s done is done. If it really is over let’s just be grateful for what we got and wait to see what Joss decides to do next.
I fully agree with you about Sarah Michelle Gellar. She wants to distance herself from ’Buffy’. She’s an actress. Whether she’s good, bad or indifferent is neither here nor there. Why should she be typecast in this one role? Given the choice between making a potentially high-profile film (’The Grudge’) or guesting in a couple of episodes of ’Angel’... Well, I know what I would do.
Give her a break.
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29 February 2004 02:25, by VJ
Okay, I can’t agree with you about all the actors/actresses being not great actors/actesses. James Marster is a great actor, and in fact is coming out with a movie now called Venetian Heat in which he and his wife house two soldiers, and he eventually falls for one of the soldiers...It takes a very talented actor to play this kind of part and James Marsters is able of doing this. Also, I do 1/2 agree on letting Angel die and 1/2 not. It’s gonna be a major cliffhanger if it ends and we do not know who the true chosen vampire for the Sanshu prophecy is. I think there should be 1 more season, like a total ending of all buffy and all angel, the First for the villian the last time, an all out war unlike ever seen. That would be an awesome storyline. Slayers/Angel/Spike/Scoobies vs. The First and his minions, and also incorporate finding out who the chosen vampire is and at the same time tying up the love triangle w/ Buffy/Angel/Spike.
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6 March 2004 23:07, by james
hav u been watching angel??? every new season is better than the other.... its like a freakin trend season 5 is by far the best season of angel except for that wrestling episode and its very likey that season 6 will be even better if wb didn’t cancel angel...and because of the cancellation angel had 2 change its stroy plot to suit the end of this season.....its too late to save angel tho ....they’re already filming the last 6 episodes to end the show once and for all...yes its 2 late...angel is gone unless some network stops angel from shooting and signs them up within the next week or 2....but thats not gonna happen...the cast and joss know this already...thats why their pulling all the stops and tricks 2 make the final episodes the best damn episodes in tv history... im mean look at the last 2 episodes... i mean season 5 is great but the last 2 episodes were in a league of its own. in shells there was amazingg special affects and lots of ground breaking action...joss said that those 2 will never be in the same epi because of $ issues...but there they are...its like the show is saying this is it might as well end this series with a bang...im a huge fan of angels and of course i wish for a 6th season...but we all know the chances of that are slim to non...if othing happends in the next week or 2...then angel is really gonna bite the dust...gracefully with everyone watching and by its side.
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9 March 2004 22:59, by TephS
...it’s sad but true. i don’t want to see angel go away, but i agree with how it should go out with a bang.
...it’s just..i would feel so much better about it if Joss felt that it was time to let go too.
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14 March 2004 18:57, by rupa kiro
hey i think u r an ardent fan of buffy n u just can’t bare the angel popularity .btvs might have given way for angel but let me tell u this that, it is working much better without buffy n will still go far.and don’t u say anything about the character’s of this serial they r just adorable n wonderful. i strongly believe it should come back, n even if they want to end it,it should have a proper ending. shara is just showing her mood in not coming for the final episod just look at David boreanaz he did app. for her episod as he thinks he does have a responsibility towards his fan. buffy should learn something from angel.see the character of this serial are great, greater than buffy’s.
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14 March 2004 19:41, by Bacs
Yet again the networks get a huge fanbase for a paticular show and then suddenly drop it. Many times leaving way to many unanswered questions. I hate to think of Angel finishing but if it does I think the rest of the season should be used to wrap up all those questions that the fans watching the show have asked for the last 4 1/2 seasons!
When BTVS finished it’s final season all the questions had been answered, well mostly anyway. Buffy had spent 7 season protecting the hell mouth and well it’s gone, she’s moved on. Angel doesn’t have to go out the same way as shows such as Roswell, who’s fans to this day are still fighting to get it brought back or a film to answer the questions left hanging.
I just hope that either Angle gets another sason or they use these last few episodes just to wrap things up. It’s not right it’s not fair to leave these things unanswered.
It would be nice to see SMG come back to help say a final farewell to Angel but sometimes these things cant be done due to other commitments (it’s not as if she knew this was gonna happen when she signed up to star in the film "the Grudge". I also see people saying she owes it to the fans to do this, in the end she owes us all nothing. 14 hours a day slogging away on sets, often battered and bruised. then hours more learning scripts, give the girl a break she did a job, in the end thats all it was a job. Not that I wouldn’t love to see BTVS come back but in the end it’s time had come and they went out with a bang.
Bacs
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8 April 2004 06:16, by Wolverine68
They got some wierd writters here.
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21 August 2005 19:40, by Anonymous
I felt the same way to begin with. I thought Angel Season 5 was really the end of the buffyverse. It tied up the loose ends of Connor and Cordelia from Angel Season 4, which in my opinion was the end of the Angel saga. It also gave Spike a chance to be the hero he had become in Buffy. It also kind of went back to the beginning, like Buffy tried to do in its final season, by rounding off the Spike-Angel relationship. Think about it, the first real season of the buffyverse was Buffy Season 2, which revolved heavily around both Spike and Angel, who havn’t really been together since. Angel Season 5 finally showed them at the ends of both their journeys-Spike’s to become a hero, and Angel’s to redeem himself (just as Buffy’s journey was about her sacrifices to become a hero, and Faith’s was more to do with redemption). So in my opinon, it wasn’t really "Angel" anymore, it was more like "Angel and Spike" which I thought was OK. I also felt the fact that they now owned Wolfram and Hart, who right from the start they had been fighting, was also a good ending, like they’d successfully climbed the corporate ladder.
However, I DID feel this way, until I read something that Joss had said. It was a reply to a question about what Angel Season 6 would have been like, and if I recall correctly, he said something like, it would be about what happens when you take on the system, and it would have been the most chaotic season of the buffyverse yet. Now in my mind this conjurs up ideas of Angel Season 4, mixed with Angel Season 1. The gang is kicked out of Wolfram and Hart (out of the garden of eden, as Angel said to Eve) and are basically being hunted down by Wolfram and Hart, having to live on the streets. Not only does this sound really really cool, but it would also have been coming COMPLETELY full circle, as Angel and the gang would have gone back to having nothing, just as they did in the beginning. Angel in his tiny little office, Wesley jobless, Gunn just trying to survive on the streets, etc. It would also have given new characters such as Harmony and Illyria, and possibly even Nina, to prove themselves, as well as the rumours about the return of Seth Green as Oz, which I would have loved. However, it could easily have gone the way of Buffy’s seasons 6 and 7, which looked good on paper, but simply didn’t really pan out. Although I think that was in part due to Joss being distracted by having 3 shows on the air at once, whereas when Buffy and Firefly finished, I think he became really attached to Angel. Anyway, that’s my two sides to the argument.
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