Sarah Michelle Gellar says she was shocked by sex scenes in Buffy The Vampire Slayer.
She claims some of the scenes were like a bondage movie, reports the Daily Star.
"It became very S&M and I felt degraded as an actress," Gellar tells this month’s Elle magazine.
The 27-year-old actress says the series left her bruised and tired.
"It was exhausting - physically and emotionally," she says. "There were at least two fight scenes in every episode. I never wore skirts for years because of all the bruises."
There’s a phrase that says : don’t spit into the fountain you drink from. and that’s exectly what SMG is doing. Buffy gave her the fame as an actress, I also believe it will be her biggest acting role in her life, and still she spits in it’s face and her fans.
Degraded as an actress ?
Wouldn’t that require some actual acting talent to qualify her in the first place.. ?
Sarah - Please, please, come down off that pedestal you somehow seem to think you belong on. For the last two seasons of Buffy at least, you were an undeniably average `actress` at best, something made painfully obvious once your co-stars came into their own.
Is it just me or is anyone else sick of the whining and ego from the ex-Buffy `star` since the show ended ?
many of us knew how much Sarah hated the season of sick sex they portrayed on Buffy. this isn’t anything new and james marsters has agreed with all of her views. for people to think the buffy/spike pairing was all about love disgusts those of us who saw it for what it was. I commend her for speaking out finally. Sarah has always been a classy lady and this continues to show it.
She should worry more about the character traits her character showed in seasons six and seven. As for the sex, it might have been a bad idea, and Marsters might have far more room to complain, but she was always clothed and was not shown in compromising positions. She often mentions the balcony scene. I challenge anyone to watch her posture and face in that scene and think that anything is happening. For anything heinous to have happened one of them would have had to be very oddly made. I’m really tired of listening to her complain.
Sarah is so arrogant that she thinks she is better as an actress(or actor) than everyone else ?
I felt that she degraded as an actress by those remarks of hers.
I DONT KNOW ABOUT YOU BUT SARAH GELLAR...HARVARD MAN....WAS MORE DEGRADING.....I DID NOT LIKE IT,FASTFORWARD-ING MOST OF THE MOVIE..I FOUND THE SCENES IN BUFFY MORE TASTE-FULL...
Hmm.... It’s funny that people are using these comments as yet another excuse to blast SMG. This is a just another testament to her professionalism as an actor : She felt degraded doing it, but she did it anyway...because that’s her job. And her getting paid for it, or having "million dollar bills", doesn’t have anything to do with how the scenes made her feel personally.
People need to get over it already - Sarah Michelle Gellar doesn’t owe any of you *anything*.
Why dont u all just back the fucking hell off. If u bother read the rest of the article u see what she says about Buffy. She says how she loved doing it and she will still proberly cry about it over in years to come. She said it was one of the the best periods of her life. In other mags she has said how she will miss it and stuff.
That proves u dont know what ur talking about so shut up. Without SMG u wouldnt hav Buffy and if she’s such a bad actress why do u watch it and why did it last 7 seasons.
Geez peoplw today. She is gorgeous and extremly tlaented and very very sweet to her fans..watch any interview god u losers.
Two fight scenes in every episode ? Wah. The series was Buffy The VAMPIRE SLAYER, honey. What did you think your character was supposed to do ? Fight scenes were just part of it. If you didn’t like it, you should have found a show called Buffy the makeup artist. Buffy the Pampered One. Whatever.
The sex scenes were a different thing. Yes, it was dark and degrading, both for characters and actors, but it "fit" for the place that Buffy was in after her resurrection. Maybe it could have been a bit more discreet ? I’ll never understand why she is whining now, instead of putting her foot down a few years ago and demanding a little discretion.
If she was uncomfortable doing the scenes, she could have spoken up. I am sure that they would have respected her feelings.
Get over it, as for her acting talents, I felt that she just wasn’t into it ( the last season) I was disappointed.
James, however , gave it his all. Which could explain why he still has a job.
You guys need to grow up. "Oh she should thank her lucky stars to get to do it with Jaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaames" and similar is something an immature child year old would say.
Sarah has talked in the past about how much she made Buffy her own. Buffy was feeling degraded so I can believe that Sarah felt the same way. I can guess what scenes she meant :
Smashed, Doublemeat Place, Gone, Deadthings, and the atempted rape in "Seeing Red" added with what the writers made Buffy’s reactions be to it the next episode and season. It made Buffy feel awful, look awful and that left Sarah in the same boat.
Does Sarah ever have anything good to say about her time on Buffy ? She was degraded—yet she still did it. I’m sure Joss didn’t have a "bondage-fun with Spike" clause in her contract that made her have to do it. For once I’d like to read an interview/snippit/blurb/ something from SMG where she says something nice about the show/character that made her the star she is today.
You have just confirmed what i thinked about your conversation.
Ok i’am really deseappointed too but it’s not a reason to say all this about her.
1.Nobody know really who is responsable or decided this.
2.Where have you finded your information, i hear too many time this sing but never from Sarah her self (comportement or paroles).
3.What know us (her friends or ennemies) said she is a working girl.
When you known your job you have more inssurance
4.Seven years yet every days and don’t for "the monney" in compareason off work.
now i have a question almost off us how many time have we said i’am borried... too much work if it’is no more....
i’am sure we said all at the end off the day(night)"every thing is good" "wonderfull day, no problems...etc etc"
And now have you read "the name off this site "
What are you going here !!!!Oops
Just a coupla probs with this article !!!! Read other comments some agree others disagree. I will be objective - has anyone seen Harvard Man ??!! I hired it coz I am a BTVS fan and if she is fine doin that film with pretty visual tacky and damn right unneeded sex !!!!! Why say sitting on top of someone you have known for about 5 years is degrading ??!!!
I dont understand that one !!!
Can I also say one thing I have hardly ever read a flaming article with her complementing BTVS !!!!!! Emma Calufield wanted to leave b4 the end was announced coz she couldnt stand SMG amd who was the ONLY ONE who missed the wrap party !!!!!!!!
I’m sorry, but I don’t exactly pity her. Its pretty tasteless to go around bashing the show that made her now that its over. I don’t think she owes us as fans, but I would like a little respect for the show and the writers, directors, fellow actors, etc., who she does owe something to. The show did not stand on her merit, because Buffy tended to be an unlikable character. Its the writers and supporting cast that made that show, so she should stop acting like a spoiled prima-donna. And I tend to agree that the sex scenes had to have been more difficult for James to perform, being the one who was evil and naked.
Also, on the topic of fight scenes... anyone who has watched the show carefully will be very well aware of what Sarah’s primary stunt double looks like, because its very rarely Sarah herself in the actual fight. I doubt very much that her contribution to those fights was so terribly exhausting to warrant her complaints. "Buffy" was a good job for her, and as a devoted fan, I’m sick of hearing negative comments from Sarah all the time.
um...smg was usually fully clothed, jm was the naked one. Being degraded as an actress because of the balcony shoot...please, I found where the wild things are more degrading. She puts so much emphasis on the balcony shot, I don’t get it. I would be more concerned over the AR. And she really doesn’t shy away from comments about lets say...waxing all her pubic hair, on howard stern, so "acting" like she was taking it from behind while fully clothed, I’m sure it was real traumatic for her. I liked her, I try to, I really did, but I’m sick of defending her. Didn’t she have stunt people anyways ? And I’m sure there are several photographs of her with her legs bare during her run on buffy. I wish that now the show is over she could be a little more gracious.
For godssakes....she loved being on buffy....how would you feel ? her character looked horrid during season six..as did james’s but...and who cares if it was with james...you all realize hes like forty right ? hes half his age..
Good actors must be affected by their roles : JM admitted SR was the most dramatic experience he ever had, and he also expressed his discomfort about being butt naked in front of 40 people and in the freezing cold.
However, saying that experience was "degrading" is a different story, and in my opinion, is a big slap at Joss, writers and crew. Unless she was forced in pornography, slavery, or prostitution while working on her role, "degrading" is a very wrong term to use for professional actress. She is compromising herself and her acting abilities by saying it, and even if she spent 2 pages prizing Joss and his crew, this little "slip" is what’s going to be remembered.
I deeply respect Sharon Stone. She was replying to a comment of one wanna-be-actress, which expressed her disgust on Sharon’s being naked on-screen. Stone told her that she took her clothes off when the role required it, when it was necessary to express the character, to sustain the story. She said that the real actress can never pre-determine the limits for her acting (that includes what to wear, who to play, and what to say), because that would prevent her from being a good actress in the first place.
If Sarah considers playing a controversial, confused, lost, but powerful women is more degrading than playing in Scoobie Doo, than there is nothing else left to be said.
I still like you Sarah, ’cause you were Buffy after all, and hope that you just used the wrong word to express your feelings.
For those of you that say she isn’t a good actress...your a dumbass ; she would have had to be doing somthing right to keep yall watching for seven seasons. And here’s a tip...go watch season five the body then we can argue how good of an actress she is.
For those of you who are raggin on her because she said it was hard to do....until you get off your lazy asses and do a sex scene with one of your best friends infront of a room of about 40 people and then have to do it over and over don’t moan and groan about how much of a baby she is. I would have been ashamed and degraded also. (and note to the person who said ’stop crying about it ! james had to be naked’ no he didn’t, he chose to be naked as did David Boreanaz in IWRY..yum)
(also note that Sarah didn’t say she didn’t want to be in the final episode but Joss said he didn’t want her because he didn’t want to make the last epsiode about Buffy. Sarah was going to be in the one that aired last week in the US, but she was shooting the Grudge in Tokyo).
You people make me sick. You watch Buffy the Vampire Slayer and are all ’YAY I LOVE THIS SHOW’ and then you get online and start trashing the person who portray’s the character the show is about ? That’s low. You people are the truest form of the word viewer. It would disgust me if you called yourselves fans, because you clearly aren’t. You need to remember that SMG, or whoever aren’t just Buffy or Dawn or Willow or whoever the hell you are being jerky about. They are people just like us and they have feelings too
And for those of you who are being nice about it...GO YOU ! WOOOOOOT
Mommyof3...
I’m sure Sarah Michelle Geller knew what she was signing of for doing a show called Buffy the Vampire Slayer. I’m sure she knew that there would be fight scenes involved. But that doesn’t mean she’s not allowed to feel tired. Geez...
Now, she felt degraded by sex scenes...Has anyone seen THE HARVARD MAN ??? was she degraded when she was playng bitchy role in that film, and i can tell you sex scene were much more degrading especially because the fil didn’t really have that much of a plot...how come she doesn’t mention that ???
well !! I don’t know where to begin !! (I ’m french so really sorry for my mistakes....) but anyway , you guys are so damn funny !!! I mean : all that debate and those complains just about 2 sentences ??!!! apparently not everyone is mad at SMG, but maybe besides this fact, remember there are other things much more important through the world than that !! Don’t get me wrong, I am a devoted fan, but I rarely post on board and sincerely, I don’t care what SMG or others actors think or say !!(and when words are misunderstood or transformed, that worst ! this is just gossip come on !) the show is what matters (and sadly it is finished !!) nothing else to add !! bye
totally agree...plus selling yourself short and being degraded in a crap movie like Harvard Man is much more immoral than being a great actress and being degraded in the world’s best cult TV series...
and anyway the Spuffy relationship was an integral part of the series, and if you are going to show a self-destructive affair based on lust and self-loathing it’s pretty difficult to do it without showing anything....
plus you really don’t see anything explicit - it may be shocking in its intent but not in its portrayal...
OH MY GOD U SPIKE FANGIRLS ARE UNBELEIVABLE..YES SHE FELT DEGRADED. SHE WAS THE HERO OF A SHOW LOWERED TO SHAGGING A DEMON. NO SHE SHOULDNT BE LUCKY TO BE WITH HIM U IGNORANT LITTLE FOOLS. THE SCENES ON THE BALCONY AND IN THE ONE WHERE SHE WAS INVISIBLE SMASHED WERE AWFUL, ITS WHEN I NEW THE SHOW WOULD BE OVER SOON. THESE WRE THE SCENES THAT DESTROYED A GOOD SHOW. IM GLAD SHE ACKNOWLEDGED THIS AND SHOWED SHE HAD FEELINGS AGAINST THEM AS NOT ALL GIRLS WILL DO ANYTHING FOR A NAKED MAN.. TSK TSK.
elizabeth you’re quite right. As for Dee...yes SMG kept me attached to the telly for seven season but as much as i love the character she portrays i think she is not that great person. and she is so rude and ungrateful towards a show that make her famous and that probably will remain the only big deal of her career...now who can object that ?
People need to get a life. I have never responded to one of these articles but I couldn’t sit idly by and let everyone bash Sarah. I think I would be more surprised if she didn’t feel degraded. I think Buffy felt degraded by what her and Spike were doing, wasn’t that the whole point of season 6. Everybody should lay off her, I don’t see anyone bashing DB for saying he is glad Angel is over.
Lol @ people using this as an excuse to bash SMG. I used to believe everything I heard but now it’s just ridiculous. Those scenes are very graphic and I’m sure that if I was put in those situations I would have not felt completly comfortable no matter how good James looks without clothes on.
And I bet if she did complain about those scenes and say she didin’t want to do them at that time all of you people would be like "OMG what a bitch. She doesn’t want to do scenes ???!!?!? What’s her problem !!! Waaaahhhh ! What, does she think she’s too good to do scenes like that now !!! Ugh !! I hate her !"
how can the lot of you say you like ’Buffy’ but then bash SMG ?!? she made BUFFY to what it was...
and if she didn’t like doing them then so what ?!? i’m sure James is nice and all but still...
she is a wonderful person and you should be ashamed to talk so nastily about her especially since your only reason to bash her is because she’s a B/A and says she doesn’t feel good about doing these scenes. i bet you wouldn’t be saying all that stuff if the scene she was talking about would have been during ’Where the wild things are’with Riley or when Angel bit her in ’GD2’...
so back the hell off !!!
I don’t understand the part about feeling degraded either. . . but if she felt that way, she felt that way. Just can’t figure what that’s about. She’s done much more steamy, not-so-wholesome stuff in her movies. I can’t help but think it is more about other tensions on the set (who knows what) than the scenes themselves.
She can’t expect Joss to let actors dictate where the story should go. And thank goodness he didn’t. Season 6 was exactly as it should have been. Maybe someday when she is older and wiser she will understand it better and be proud of it - as she should be. She was great in it.
she is a spoilt bitch. James was more naked then her in those scenes, he was in as much fight scenes as she was and he got slap around alot more in the role of spike. At lest James is thankful for his part in the show where would smg be with out buffy... on the dol. her films are shit any away
Holy Cow. I hope that SMG doesn’t read this forum or there will never be a chance for a Buffy Movie or anything with her involved.
As far as it goes I think that the ratings show that SMG was right. Season 6 got too dark and really let the air out of the series. Season 7 was better, but still not as much fun as the first 5 seasons.
Dark stories always sound neat, but they can wear you out quite quickly if that is all you have week in and week out. From what I have read this is really what the problem was and SMG saw it. She told people her concerns (that she thought the show needed to be lighter) and they didn’t listen. Is it any wonder that she didn’t sign a new contract ? She had concerns and didn’t like certain things. Joss was working on a number of different projects and gave up too much control and there was no sign that he would have more time in the future. So she said "We had a really good run. Nothing lasts forever lets end it while were still on top." The subtext to that was she only saw things getting worse if they kept going.
Quite frankly it is too bad the show wasn’t just outright cancelled. There is all this bad blood about SGM because she brought about the end of Buffy the TV series. If the show had just been cancelled all the bad blood would have been with the network. Instead everyone blames SMG. Too bad because she helped bring us some of the best TV of our generation.
Everybody who bitches about Sarah Michelle Gellar, you don’t deserve to call yourself a fan, do you know why ? Because Sarah loves her fans all she does is prase them and thank them every bloody chance she gets, and as soon as she says something you don’t agree with you turn around and trash her. All she does is thank Joss Whedon and Buffy the vampire slayer for her amazing oppurtunities how dare you think she thinks she’s above everybody else.
And as for the sex scenes, you may not think they’re degrading but as somebody very similar to Sarah I can understand how she feels. She was Buffy for five years, Buffy was her and suddenly she was faced with playing a person she loved performing all sorts of personal acts which she was not comfortable doing.
And don’t even try and defend yourselves by saying she could have oppted out of it, as a profesional actress she would have felt she owed it to Joss and the rest of the cast and she is allowed to express how these scenes made her feel ! If she really was up herself then that is when she would have refused to do it, but she fell in line as an employee, gritted her teeth and went ahead with it.
For gods sake you need to grow up people, oh and by the way, saying she’s lucky to do sex scenes with James is a pathetic way of justifiying why you believe she shouldn’t be feeling degraded !
Why did you read this article, because you’re a Buffy fan right ? Well let me tell you Buffy wouldn’t be half the show it is without Sarah helping to carry the show on her shoulders. I was practically crying reading how unbelivably harsh some of you are being, you don’t reserve the care Sarah shows her fans. She is so talented and beautiful if you’re not praising her you don’t deserve to be talking about her, save that for the true Buffy fans. And all of you who love Sarah, I applaud you for recognising one of the few good people left in Hollywood.
How dare you to call people names and accuse them of being "bad fans" just because they expressed their negative opinion on actress’s comment ?!
SMG is entitled to think and say what she feels, and we, as true fans, are entitled to discuss her comments and like/dislike them. The process is called "publicity". Disagreeing with actress does not make someone bad, dirty, or unworthy.
Please, stop behaving like 3-years old and hurting people’s feelings on personal levels. Many of us were loyal fans for years by supporting the show physically and financially. We don’t deserve to be screamed on or be called names by some mentally unhealthy personals.
I just have to say that I’m glad someone other than James has finally spoken about those episodes. While I believe in some ways that the Spuffy relationship was necessary for S6, since it showed how low Buffy had fallen when she was brought back, I don’t believe the scenes had to be that graphic. Think back to Willow/Oz - we didn’t see any of that, but we still knew what was going on.
I found most of the S6 Spuffy to be quite embarrassing and vulgar, to be honest. I know there are quite a few Buffy fans who refuse to acknowledge S6 ever existed. I for one, am glad we got to have Once More, With Feeling, but I hate what the show became for a few episodes after that. In one of the episodes, I remember one of the Troika saying "Cool ! Cable Porn !" and that’s what it felt like I was watching every Tuesday night at 8:00 - cable porn. I adore this show, but I can understand where Sarah is coming from. I can’t believe these people who are saying "Ooooh ! I’d love to be degraded by James any day !". Excuse me ?!?! You do realize that what was shown on BtVS was a VERY DANGEROUS RELATIONSHIP ?!?! And that in Seeing Red, that was attempted rape ? Just checking. As I write this, I am slightly hypocritical, because I was a fan of the S7 Spuffy story line. I was a little disappointed that they never seemed to address what Spike had done the year before, but it was assumed it was "Peachy-keen" because he had a soul. And, yes, I realize that I am off-topic, but oh well. Oh, and another thing. These people who are saying that Sarah was wrong to say this - are you saying you enjoyed watching this ? Just wondering.
To all the people saying Sarah was a professional so she did scenes she didn’t think were appropriate, you obviously don’t understand what it means to be a "professional". She signed a contract, she performed the scenes, then she bitched about it afterwards. THAT IS NOT PROFESSIONAL !! The professional thing to do would be to let it go, respect it as a job and move on with your life. Was she violated ? NO !!! As an actress myself I’ve had to do things like bare my breasts on stage in a theatre full of people, but I don’t complain to the world about it !! I cherish it as my best part and treat it with respect for a choice that I made ! That’s professionalism.
wow !!, well now I see why all the people in the cast of Buffy never had to say anything about Sarah I think they hate her !!, personally I think she is such a bitch because that role made her was she is now a “famous” actress you know and is very sad when you see that a person is not what you expect. I really think that Sarah loved her character, and that means to leave reality and focus in the fiction, to live in your character´s skin, to felt and act like it, when you act...never felt degraded about a scene because you know is fiction, and because you supposed are an actress... and she do not deserve to call her an actress if she doesn´t accept what a character means. It´s terrible that she waits until know for said that... if she felt degraded like she said she was, why she waits until know ?? Why never said anything to Joss or to somebody ???....Sarah 4 next time think well before answer questions, your brain have a conection with your mouth in case you don’t know.....
She deserved to have an opinion about what she was doing...if she felt bad or sad about anything she had to do, is normal to said that she felt that way....she better that anybody knows how that scenes were filmed, we dont know how they filmed it, maybe was a very bad experience to her and maybe 4 James too, I think she is a very brave actress 4 said whats on her mind...she is not 100% agree with some scenes..thats normal !!! omg !! James Marsters said that some scenes were hard to filmed and other ones he was obligated to do....so ??? no big deal...
I think most of us are more affected by the way she said it, saying it was "degrading to her as an actress" I think she’s a fine actress she did a damn good protrayal of someone in their twenties being under so much pressure...
But I don’t think anything she did on the series warranted those comments. She’s done more degrading stuff on movies etc. and I’m sure she’ll do them again.
As for her saying the series left her bruised...sarah, we’re not stupid. She had a stunt person who definitely did most, if not all, of the physically exhausting scenes for her. Hell, whenever a scene called for RUNNING the camera practically never goes to the level of her face.
I can believe that it left her tired. I’m sure it did. That’s really the only thing I find true in that quote. Oh, that, and her age.
The malice & mean-spiritedness in much internet discourse, including many of these spiteful comments (e.g., ’dry your tears w/money’), is a dreary & depressing spectacle. The ignorance displayed in some of them doesn’t brighten the picture any either.
SMG never dissed BTVS. She said, assuming the article is accurate, only what she has said before—that she didn’t like S 6 & that the nature of Buffy’s relationship with Spike was, she felt, out of character for Buffy & degrading to Buffy. She said at the end of S 6 that she hadn’t been comfortable with it & that she hoped S 7 would be lighter. The network agreed with her. Most BTVS fans (not all) agreed with her. Most of the critics agreed with her. And Whedon agreed with her in part, or pretended to, & promised [this promise was not kept] that S 7 would be lighter & more like classic BTVS, with our heroes returning to form. In the Ent Wkly article on the end of BTVS, SMG named "Dead Things" as her least fav ep of the entire series. Her comments are thus not new or news, but the language ["degrading" ; "S&M"] is more sensational & the press & the Net played that angle up to stir interest [which worked]. As several people have noted, SMG did object to Whedon & Co at the time & was not able to persuade them to make the changes she wanted. If SMG folded & did those scenes a) b/c she was a professional with a contract & b) b/c she decided to trust Joss & co, who had done so much for her career & been right so often, I don’t see how anyone can blame her for that. There is no inconsistency here, & certainly there is absolutely zero dissing of BTVS as a whole. SMG has always made it plain that she understands & appreciates what Whedon, the show, & the character did for her career.
It is also unfair to blame her for the end of the show. I miss it terribly, but the show was wearing out. SMG was like a rider on a dying horse. Joss, of course, had already left the building at the end of S 5. He had clearly lost his interest in the show & could only work up an interest for gimmicky ep’s—although some of those ep’s, like OMWF, were brilliant and showed what he ould do when he was fully involved. Once SMG bit the bullet & played the villain by deciding to leave, Whedon was ecstatic that the show was ending. He mentioned in every interview from that period how exhausted he was & how ready he was for it to be over—usually followed up by a little gushing over Firefly. He said more than once that it was time for BTVS to end. His reasons for wanting to end it were much the same as SMG’s ; he just didn’t say them out loud until she went 1st, which left her holding the bag. I don’t blame Whedon for being a little tired & bored, any more than I blame SMG for being tired & ready to move on. I do blame Whedon a little bit for stringing the thing out when he was obviously bored, tired, & over-extended.
As for whether the "naughty bits" on BTVS were more or less smutty than those from Harvard Man or CI, I think that’s irrelevant. I don’t personally find any of them shocking, but that’s neither here nor there. SMG said only that she felt degraded, &, specifically, that she felt degraded as an actress—possibly referring to her earlier comments about the scenes being [in her opinion] out of character for Buffy. It is for SMG, not you or me, to say how SMG feels about a given sex scene. Logic is not required & does not enter in.
Personally I wish that Eliza Dushku [ditto Michelle Pfeiffer in her prime] would do nudity. It may be tacky, but I would’ve enjoyed The New Guy more if Eliza had stripped out of one of those bikinis. I do not, however, expect Eliza [or Michelle P] to rearrange her personal sense of modesty to suit my preferences or to be more in line with logic. For example, it seems illogical to me for Eliza to so enthusiastically [read some of her interviews ; she didn’t mind] do all those totally gratuitous bikini butt-shaking scenes in New Guy [even the character narrating the movie felt obliged to jokingly apologise for them], but to be adamantly opposed to even a brief flash of nudity. It seems, to me, an illogical place to draw the line, but it’s not my line to draw, & the location of the line is dictated by feelings [Eliza’s feelings], not logic. The same is true for SMG & sex scenes. What makes SMG [or Eliza] feel bad makes her feel bad, & you & I don’t get a vote. And it is incorrect to assume that SMG didn’t have similar feelings about some of her scenes in CI & Harvard Man. In fact, I know she did, b/c I’ve read interviews where she talked about those movies. Most people [including James Marsters, who has so indicated in several interviews] feel uncomfortable about sex scenes, and young women in Hollywood are in a continual struggle to draw the line between what they’re comfortable with & what the suits want.
The ridicule of SMG’s injuries [& of her comments about how physical BTVS was] is mind-bogglingly mean-spirited & illogical. It is true that SMG is not Jean Claude Van Damme or Cynthia Rothrock, but it is also demonstrably true that she got hurt more than once. Dushku in an interview talked about accidentally nailing SMG in the head in a fight scene. And SMG suffered a fracture filming another ep—by the way, she finished that day’s shooting before going to the hospital.
Note—none of the above is intended as a criticism of Eliza Dushku. She just made a handy point of comparison. When, e.g., I say that she did the bikini scenes in New Guy enthusiastically, I am merely referring to interviews where she laughed about the scenes & indicated she had fun doing them. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that, & I’m not criticising her for it.
She felt degraded. Understandable. Buffy did take a darker turn in season 6. But I am going to say this in all honesty. Sarah Michelle Gellar does everything in her power to distance herself from anything Buffy related, including her fans. Proof ? She doesn’t promote anything outside of the show. Voice over for the Buffy video game, Inkworks autograph cards, Buffy conventions, interviews in Buffy related magazines. At the end of season 7, she did not attend the Buffy wrap party. Let me rephrase that. After spending 7 years working with her fellow actors, she couldn’t spend a few hours hanging out with them one last time. A party that was pretty much an honorable tribute to all the good times and hardships they had filming Buffy over the years. That is just a little odd, and disrespectful. Jennifer Garner stands behind her show Alias one hundred percent. And while Alias is nowhere near as good as Buffy, SMG could follow her example of how to treat fans, and co-workers of a character based TV show. It shows the true character of an actress, when they have a positive attitude toward a show they are carrying.
OMG ! Why are people making a such a big deal out of this ?! She felt degraded.....so what ?! I can understand why she felt that way. When I saw those scenes I thought it was weird that they had to show that Buffy grew up by doing something like this...I thought it was unnecessary and there would have been other ways....So personally, I think it’s great SMG did the scenes anyway !
I adore Sarah. I adore Buffy. I love Buffy/Spike. I love Buffy/Angel. I’m not interested in bashing anybody or anything or in making any even remotely unfair judgements. But the simple fact is, that unless these comments are fabricated, that is, unless Sarah never actually said these things in the first place, I’m pretty disappointed in her attitude. I have absolutely no problem with her saying she was exhausted - even with all the stunt doubles in the world, her schedule on Buffy was a punishing one and she has every right to be drained by it. The bit I have a problem with is saying that she felt "degraded as an actress" by the sex scenes in the show. First of all it’s a ridiculous statement when you consider her risque scenes in Cruel Intentions and her very overt and gratuitous sex scenes in Harvard Man. Secondly it is impossible for anyone to deny that it’s very rude to Joss and the writers who have worked with her to make the show great to suggest that their work was, in a sense, beneath her.
On balance I still love Sarah and I always will. She’s a wonderful actress, a beautiful woman and, it seems, a good person. But these comments are very inappropriate.
I bet she didnt feel Degraded when she got her paychecks !
An James/Spike was Full of it ,if he said He DIDNT like/want to do those scenes w/ Gellar, For 1, It brought his charcter value to the franchise even higher than it was,fOR 2 - an probally also brought THE rise in his black levis higher then it already was !!
BTW, For the record, Ive never heard of him complaining, just in this thread !
Yes, Season 6 was dark and Season 7 made Spike "all peachy keen" because now he had his soul - but this is exactly how it went for Angel too.
So that was nothing new . . . definitely SMG has a right to feel anyway she felt, and a right to talk about it. But I don’t get it. Buffy was never Miss Perfect Hero, making perfectly heroic decisions with morally upstanding boyfriends.
In Season 2, she slept with a much older guy she didn’t know very well with a terrible past. In Season 3, she took him back and didn’t tell her friends, even though she knew he could be a huge danger to them. Also in Season 3, she looted a store and was an accessory to the Deputy Mayor’s murder. And she tried to murder Faith.
And Season 6 was dark ? The character and actress was degraded ? Amazing.
I find it interesting that people are saying that Sarah shouldn’t feel "degraded" by certain S/B sex scenes because she has done movie sex scenes like in Harvard Man or other BtVS scenes. Has it occurred to people that Sarah’s comfort level as an actress was pushed in that Balcony scene ? That it very well likely wasn’t the sex but that she didn’t feel comfortable doing it because she felt that it was out of character or simply didn’t like what it stood for. Compare that to Harvard Man where she has said in interviews that the director liked to be risqué with sex scenes yet did not push the actors to do something they were not comfortable with.
Also...Why is it that Sarah can’t express herself, even using a very strong word as "degraded" and yet reports of James at cons has stated how uncomfortable and sickening it was to do the AR scene in Seeing Red and if he had the choice, he wouldn’t have done so. Well really there wasn’t a choice, the actors were under contract and even if they voiced their dislike for particular scenes/storylines as long as the producers what them to do it, there is little the actors could do. Except voice their opinion publicly.
Those scenes WERE degrading, demoralising and unecessary, to Buffy as a character and to SMG as an actress. Her character was being abused by a demon. Th balcony scene was definately the lowest moment of the series and i doubt she would have done it if she were not under contract, i remember reading in another article she refused to do it till the last minute where joss convinced her it was where buffy as acharacter had to go. The dumpster scene was also "how low can u go" AND I GOT SO CLOSE TO TURNING OFF Heck half the audience did NE way.
Now i know she made out with Spike/JM but that doesnt mean she had to enjoy it. We know he has a large fangurly fanbase but u dont have to spu nonsense like "SHE WOULD BE LUCKY TO HAVE HIM" She WOULD NOT. not only do people have different tastes but in character he was a demon with no soul and was basically usin her as a upgraded buffy bot.
HARVARD MAN is a completely different kettle of fish. In this movie she was not a heroine and if the sex scenes were degrading its how the character was.
It wasn’t up to the SMG, where the character should go in BtVS, anymore than where her character should go in her movies. Joss built up to Season 6, and he obviously believed Buffy’s actions and behavior made perfect sense and was consistent with the character.
So - I don’t think her feeling degraded was about Joss expecting anything different from her, than her movie directors have expected. I think it was about her not understanding the character.
She did a great job in the role though, and she can spout off all she wants. She owes Joss and the cast and crew, and BtVS fans nothing more than she’s already given us : a great performance.
I find Ms. Gellar’s remarks to be extremely inappropriate. Degraded ? She wasn’t the one working in front of the cast and crew wearing next to nothing for hours every day and, no, it was not James’ choice to appear in only a modesty garment. But, reportedly, Ms. Gellar WAS the one teasing her acting partner about HIS near nudity. When she shows some compassion for her co-workers, I’ll show some compassion for her.
Wow obviously everyone feels very strong about this but i would like to take a second to address it, first SMG has allways done things that can be viewed as risque. Think back to cruel intentions when she made out with selma blair and then again at an awards show for mtv, also about the bruises immediatly after the series she was cast in scooby doo as a black belt with many fighting scenes if she hated them so much why get cast in another role so similar ? sorry just had to say something.
Sorry, this isnt on the topic much, but it needs correcting before any more trouble gets caused
Emma Caulfield wanted to leave b4 the end was announced coz she couldnt stand SMG
This statement is innacurate. Having attended a convention recently with Emma, I can tell you that Emma was happy the show was ending due to dispute with FOX. And that it had nothing at all to with SMG.
It’s clear that all this venom really doesn’t have anything to do with SMG’s comments in this article. We all loved the show and this venom is all about SMG walking away from Buffy. The show ending is like a death. Some people seem to be stuck in the anger phase of dealing with the death of the series. The series had to end sooner or later. Joss was ready for it to end, SMG was ready for it to end, cast members had come and gone, it was going to happen. Being bitter isn’t going to change anything. In fact, it will only ruin the pleasure of watching the re-runs and DVDs of the show. So while it is understandable that people are angry the only possible thing that all this anger can accomplish is to drive SMG away from ever doing anything Buffy again. It is too bad, as I would love to see a Buffyverse movie. The only way that I can see that happening is if Joss’ Firefly movie spin-off does well. That would prove that cult TV outside of Star Trek can make the jump to the big screen. I know everyone reading this will see the movie, we can only hope that it is a big enough hit to allow Joss to test the waters with a Buffyverse movie too. Maybe by then people will have coped with the death of the Series and will be ready to see Buffy on the screen again.
BtVS was great because Joss and the rest of the gang took risks. Some risks pay off, some don’t. If SMG feels it wasn’t worth it, then that’s one that didn’t work for her. Overall, the series benefited from risk taking. Joss was obviously in the position of having to push others past their comfort level. That’s one heck of a responsibility. Hand it to everyone involved that they trusted their leader even if his ideas didn’t work out every time. Getting past the comfort level is always necessary to grow as an artist, athlete, etc. BtVS was one of the few shows that weren’t afraid to push the fans, too. The rest of the industry could take a lesson from it.
YOU DO KNOW THIS QUOTE FROM SMG IS TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT, RIGHT ? It’s not all of what she said in her interview from Elle magazine. In the interview, she boasts about how much she loved being on ’Buffy’, how much she loved working with the actors, etc.
When she was asked on what she wouldn’t like from the series, she mentioned she felt degraded by the sex scene from "Dead Things". She said that during that sex scene in that episode, it felt out of character for Buffy, and the way it was handled, it made her feel uncomfortable doing it. That’s all she said about being degraded as an actress, because of those sex scenes in "Dead Things".
SHE NEVER MENTIONED BEING DEGRADED BY ANY SEX SCENES FROM ANY SEASON, EXCEPT FOR SEASON SIX’S EPISODE, "DEAD THINGS".
If memory serves me well, that’s the same episode that Buffy beat Spike to a pulp. Many fans disagreed with that episode too, so why shouldn’t she ?
AND, SHE HAS SILTENLY WENT TO JOSS WHEDON ANS MARTI NOXON ABOUT HOW THEY HAD HER ACT IN SEASON SIX, BUT THEY WOULD ALWAYS TURN HER OPINIONS, AND WORRIES ASIDE ANS IGNORE THEM. HOW WOULD YOU GUYS FEEL, IF YOU THOUGHT YOUR OPINIONS DIDN’T MATTER ? THAT’S HOW SHE FELT WHEN EVERYTIME SHE’D CALMLY TELL JOSS WHEDON IN PRIVATE AND HE’D NOT LISTEN TO HER CONCERNS AND WORRIES ABOUT THE SHOW AND ABOUT HOW THE FANS WERE REACTING TOWARDS THE SHOW. IT’S NOT HER FAULT. IT’S JOSS WHEDON’S ! JAMES MARSTERS ALSO COMMENTED ON DISLIKING DOING CERTAIN SCENES IN HIS ABOUT.COM INTERVIEW DURING THE SUMMER. AND CHARISMA CARPENTER TOLD IN AN INTERVIEW THAT SHE HATED DOING THE CONNOR SCENE IN "APOCALYPSE NOWISH", A.K.A "RAIN OF FIRE". SHE SAID SHE HATES THAT SCENE ! AND AMBER BENSON, LAST YEAR COMMENTED ON HOW THE SHOW WENT DOWN HILL WHEN THEY KILLED HER CHARACTER OFF. AND EVEN MICHELLE TRACTENBERG SPOKE OUT THIS YEAR, ON HOW THEY TREATED DAWN, AND HOW POORLY THEY WROTE DAWN. SO, IT’S NOT JUST SMG WHO HAD DISAGREEMENTS WITH THE WRITERS AND HOW THEIR CHARACTERS WERE TREATED ON THE SHOW.
AS FOR SMG BEING BRUISED AND TIRED FROM WORKING ON THE SHOW, SMG DOES DO HER STUNTS. MANY WORKERS COMMENT ON SMG DOING HER STUNTS TOO. IT’S ONLY THE DANGEROUS STUNTS, THAT ONLY CALL FOR A STUNT DOUBLE, OTHER THAN THAT, THE ACTORS FROM ’BUFFY’ DOES THEIR OWN STUNTS, EXCEPT FOR MICHELLE TRACTENBERG.
If you all recall, David Boreanaz this year got injured by doing his stunts. Think, if he can get hurt by doing those simple stunts that don’t call for stunt doubles, then surely SMG can get injured at times too while doing the stunts that aren’t life-risk, and that don’t call for stunt doubles.
THIS QUOTE FROM THIS ARTICLE WAS TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT. TO PASS A REAL JUDGEMENT ON SMG, I’D ADVISE YOU ALL TO ACTUALLY READ THE FULL INTERVIEW SHE GAVE, BECAUSE YOU’LL THEN SEE THAT THIS FLAMING ON SMG IS A WASTE OF TIME. HER FULL INTERVIEW STATES HOW MUCH SHE LOVED BUFFY. HOW SHE THINKS ITS ONE OF THE BEST SHOWS EVER MADE, AND HOW GLAD SHE WAS, TO BE A PART OF IT.
ALSO, THE REASON SHE’S NEVER OFFERED HER VOICE OR SIGNINGS FOR ANY BUFFY PRODUCTS, IS BECAUSE SHE’S A BUSY WOMAN. MANY OTHER ACTORS FROM BUFFY DON’T OFFER THEIR TIME EITHER, E.G. EMMA CAULFIELD, MICHELLE TRACTENBERG, ALYSON HANNIGAN. AND SMG IS CREDITED FOR THE BUFFY GAME, "CHAOS BLEEDS" SO SURELY SHE CONTRIBUTED SOMETHING, IN ORDER TO HAVE BEEN CREDITED A SPECIAL THANKS BY THE GAME MAKERS.
AND THE REASON SHE WASN’T AT THE CAST WRAP PARTY, WELL, AFTER FINISHING BUFFY, SHE WAS ORDERED TO FLY OVER TO VANCOUVER, CANADA TO START SHOOTING SCOOBY-DOO 2. SHE HAD NO TIME TO GO TO THE WRAP PARTY. SHE IMMEDIATLY LEFT THE BUFFY SET, WENT HOME, PACKED, AND LEFT TO GO SHOOT HER MOVIE. YOU’D KNOW THIS IF YOU READ HER INTERVIEWS, AND HER SEGMENT ON ’ELLEN’ WHERE SHE TALKS ABOUT LEAVING BUFFY AND GOING STRAIGHT TO FILMING SCOOBY DOO 2, AND THEN ’THE GRUDGE’.
AND SHE"S RECENTLY SAID IN MARCH, THAT SHE’S NEVER TRIED TO DISTANCE HERSELF FROM THE SHOW. SHE SAYS THOSE ARE RUMORS. SHE SAID PEOPLE NEVER HEAR THE OTHER HALF OF THE STORY, AND SHE’S TRIED TO TELL HER HALF AS BEST AS SHE CAN.
OH, AND BEFORE THIS IS BROUGHT UP...SHE REALLY DID WANT TO BE ON ’ANGEL’ THIS YEAR, BUT WHEN SHE COULD FINALLY MAKE IT, JOSS WHEDON DIDN’T WANT HER THERE.
Foundstarr, SMG comments in a interview a few years back, that doing the kiss in "Cruel Intentions" was a little scary for her to do. It wasn’t like Alyson Hannigan did with Amber Benson, with a kiss and that’s it. SMG was shy doing it. She almost didn’t do it, but realized she had to.
And she loves martial arts movies, and loves to do martial arts, (she’s a black belt), and she’s recently commented on wanting to do movies similar to Kill Bill, because she loves doing her stunts...it’s just, they can have a defect. There’s pain, bruises, etc. But there’s also the joy of doing them...but the pain...her love for doing martial arts moves in moves, and then hating the pain that comes afterwards, is like a person on a diet. They want that cheese burger. They eat that cheese burger. But afterwards, they wish they hadn’t ate that cheese burger. understand ?
She’s so hypocritic !Spuffy sex scenes were amazing !And I bet that prudish Sarah didn’t feel "degraded" by her very modest salary of ...250,000 dollars/episode !!
well,if she didn’t really like the fighting then why coundn’t she leave.it wasn’t only her who had to work hard you know.james was also in the scences.she knew there was going to be alot of fighting when she joined buffy,so she should feel bruised.buffy’s all about fighting,the action.it isn’t some kids programme.
i’m agree with her....i though 6 season was kinda ...Graphic i remmember in Doublemeat Palace the sex scene in the Garbage was kinda Sick i think Gellar is Right ....And..for people who is talking bad about sarah...i just wanna say something.......G O T O T H E H E L L.....S O M U C H !!!
you call you self a FAN she got an openion and you say she’s not allowd to have an openion i hate people who don’t respeckt the acters they made a series fore you and if you don’t like it then don’t see it ok
In my opinion this did represent the low point of season 6 out-of-character-buffy and this is what made it emotionally powerful. The experience of dying changed her etc...
SMG is entitled to her own opinion and in her defense these sort of scenes cannot be fun to act because you have to fake the relationship/sex whatever. I’m sure if you don’t love the other person and had to do a scene like this it would be emotionally and physically draining.
Why do I have a feeling most of you are 12 years old. You have no respect for sarah, or the show. Sarah has never said anything negative about the show. Alyson griped about the show ending. She blamed Sarah for it, but no one said anything about her. Also, Sarah shouldn’t have to guest star on Angel. It wasn’t her show. Do you really think all those actors from Friends will guest on the joey tribiani show ? The reason she felt degraded as an actress is because it was out of character to do those scenes. It has nothing to do with James, so shut up. Many times, he’s said he hated the rape scene. He even said he had previously turned down offers because characters were rapist. I don’t hear anyone saying anything about him. And as far as that scene goes, watch it. She has been exploited on that show for years, and it’s about time it was talked about.
HEY WILL V FU ! IF U THOUGHT SMG WAS SUCH A BAD ACTRESS Y DID U WACH BUFFY ?
OK she felt degraded every actor does somtimes in my opinion dead things was a great episode it just needed 1 more leading upto it maybe buffy under stress... somthing to get it out on spike in different ways, now if you thought you was a big rich actress millions of fans then you had 2 do a scene where you just burst into sex for no reason like a porn film wouldnt you feel like youve gone from super star to sex/stunt woman
MY RESPECT TO SARA MITCHELLE GELLAR
, JAMES MARSTERS DAVID BOREANAS (if ive spelt their names right)
Wow a lot of comments. I personally believe she is an ok actress lets face it thought she hasnt done much to challenge herslef that I have seen outside Buffy. She has done some amazing episodes ’The Body’ was amazing and she brought us Buffy at the end of the day. I am a fan of hers and I watch things she is in because she is in them !!!
But as a fan I do not have to worship everything she does or be offended by everything she says that is not a positive thing about BTVS.
I think as an actress she has done worse things than the balcony scene - Where the Wild things are, THE HARVARD MAN, every actress will prob do sex scenes in their life as it is a part of life - I personally think she and James should really stop moaning BUT only coz it is a bad reflection on them - the last think I do when looking for a new job is criticise my old job or employer !!
I am grateful to all the actors that brought this world into mine ans I will continue to support them in their future projects.
Consequentially if this is seen as a ’dig’ by some people it is not !!! I have given my honest feedback and as a fan it is my right to do so - we were not made all the same and the people who hate her have just as much right to come on here and comment as the people who love her - SO get over it those who are berating others it is a free world (mostly) and variety is the spice of life !!!!!!!!!!
SHE was degraded ?? James was the one who was practically naked every single time, though with what we saw on tv, he only would have had to have his shirt off. Sarah, meanwhile, got to be fully dressed the entire time. Such degradation.
i would think it would feel degrading. Her space was violated and i’m glad she even stuck in there to do the scene. Imagine how much that would drain you to do that type of scene over and over again and have bruises and stuff on your legs from the scene . She is not saying hey i wish i had never done the scene she is just saying she felt like people were using her as an actress. And people look up the word degrading and then respond !!!!!!!!!!
You people are jerks. She could’ve been scared to speak up before. And if she decided to quit about it-she could have been sued for breaking a contract. AND it is so freaking rude to say "It was james-why wouldn’t she want to do it ?" Uh, mabey she’s the kinda girl that saves that for the man she loves ?! AND ! "Oh, she got paid for it, so shutup !" YOU EVIL DISGUSTING MORONS ! She’s not a prostitute. You have no idea how she felt. Now, she’s not my favorite actor. And who cares what kind of person she is. She was probally practically forced into it, mabey not told. But, she pretty much had no choice. She was embarrased and humiliated. Some people dont enjoy people WATCHING THEM DO THAT ! Now, if you’d accept money to do that on screen. Whatever. You’re perogative. Once again, you have NO idea how she felt. ’Specially in the "seeing red" scene. Prolly kinda freaked her out a bit. People, SHUT THE CRAP UP !
she felt degraded after doing sex scenes in Buffy !? Arguably the best show ever ?! She Felt Degraded !? so is she also saying she felt degraded after Scooby-Doo ?! God knows I would...
I agree that we owe a great deal of thanks for SMG for giving us 7 years. She didnt have to, on the flip side of the coin we gave her as much as she gave us. Stars are nothing without fans. I happen to think she is an excellant actress but ask yourself this how many of the fans who go to every movie she makes go for the main fact she was "buffy".
The sex scene’s on Buffy degraded her. Thats interesting because at least they had context due to whedons excellants writing,. In =The harvard man she should have felt more disgust at those scenes as they were much much worse
i beleive there could be a very good reason for smg saying that she felt degraded by some of the sex scenes in season 6. It is quite likely that is was not the graphic nature of the scenes that were a problem. It was the emotions and screwed uped ness of the character she was playing at the time. Those scenes with spike were deigned to show buffy’s descent into self hatred and self abuse ; in season 6 buffy is very much like a vampire like spike in fool for love in the boxer rebellion. The emotions necessary to play this probably draggged smg into some of the same places emotionally that her character was going. This is a little like playing with fire to show its effects, not as serois or threatening but certainly with potential for damage. As she had already been playing buffy for so long it would be hard for her not to at somewhat identify with her. Plus, you don’t portray something without being able to touch something of it in yourself. Actors and actreses who play very dark characters or good characters hitting their dark side always have trouble with the intesity of it, most of them just don’t tell you their real feelings about it in an interview.
Hey ! U guys are being real unappreciative yurselves ! Those scenes aren’t as glamorous as they look on tv. I can completely see her point ! She felt degraded doing it and I felt degraded watching it.
GOSH ! Opinions really are like ASSHOLES !
Everybody has one ! How about the episode of Buffy they filmed in a 20’ tall tank of water for 8 hrs. while SMG enjoyed the flu ? To be at the mercy of some Idiot’s writing CAN be demeaning in itself. I respect her body of work !
Just wondering which episode this balcony thing everyone keeps talking about is ? I can certainly see why she felt degraded, I felt almost uncomfortable watching some of the scenes, especially "Smashed"
Hey, all the bitches out there slagging off poor SMG, shut up. it’s pretty apparent that y’all are jealous that she got to do it with james...Grow up and live with the fact that he is way out of your reach. SMG is human as anyone, and she is entitled to her opinion of things. Besides how come you’re all slagging her off now when she finally did speak up and yet you question why she didn’t say anything in her previous steamy roles ? And if she’s such a bad actress, why is she the one who landed the role of buffy ? why not you ? or some other goody-two-shoes bitch ? Grow up y’all !!!!!
Just cuz she made it look entertaining didn’t mean she was enjoying it. I would rather hear her true feelings about it than false. There was a point when life for Buffy seemed exactly what Sarah said (and her mom was not there to put a stop to it)but time went on and things changed and evolved relationship wize in 7 (She would not be the first young girl to enter a relation-ship like that) Speaking as someone who too began a job at the same time as Sarah began Buffy , but is still doing it. Some days I complain about it, but others I’m elated. (Tho would be more so if James Marsters was there too !)
I’m sure this is old news. Sarah has said something simular before. I think it’s out of context, maybe to stir things up for dvd sales. The fact that it was so different for her to what we saw,shows what a tremenous actress she is !
I’m so fucking sick of the goddamned "Spike and Buffy" lovers/fans claiming tht they belonged together. Spike did NOT belong with Buffy. Yes i’m an Angel/Buffy shipper.
But I might have been a Spike andBuffy shipper if they portrayed the pairing a bit better. Maybe more tasteful.
I didn’t like the Buffy and Spike hitting each other before having sex. Or Spike having anal sex with Buffy on the infamous balcony scene. I thought it was degrading myself.
Fans try to compare the Riley/Buffy sex scene in "season 4’s "Where the Wild Things Are" and it leaves me baffled. How can you compare the two ? Buffy was in love with Riley and it was love making not downright "fucking". With Buffy and Spike it was the latter. If it turned SMG off and didn’t agree with th storyline I say "kudos" to her. It goes to show you how sick women can be to think Buffy and Spike were in love or belonged with each other in season 6.
I love porn BUT I don’t love to watch a porn where a woman is getting smacked around or punched before having sex. That is disgusting to me.
I just think everybody needs to chill out. So she supposedly felt degraded...who cares either way ? People have a right to feel emotions last time I checked, in the same way that people who respond to her have the right to have their own opinions. Personally, I think a lot of the season 6 business was integral to the character finding herself after the tragic event of death and resurrection. It basically embodied the idea of hitting rock-bottom before you can get things in order. Obviously SMG felt it was important as well since she did her job and pulled off the mood that Joss was trying to create. The bottom line is that the show served us well for 7 years, which is a testiment to the work of every individual who put effort into it. I think we should be celebrating the memory of the show instead of trying to tear down its storylines, actors, and each other.
I agree with LedBaby. Christian dear - Bangles always throw s.6 in the face of all Spuffys - oh how can you support a relationship that was sooo wrong, the whole point is both people and what exists between them can and do evolve. s.6 was about two desperate people who did not have any real understanding of each other or each others real needs, s.7 was about two such people coming to that understanding because one of them made a decision to be a better person with each supporting and standing by the other one against everyone else. Bangels find it hard to let the relationship because it was such a romantic one but I prefer relationships which aren’t all moons, Junes and Ferris wheels. I’m a proud Spuffy and Cangel because in both cases - everyone saw each other’s worst sides and still cared - Buffy never saw Angel fall as Angel rather than Angelius not like Cordy did and she still has a rose-tinted view of what he’s like rather like some Bangels in fact.
SMG has the right to her opinion but I’m not sure she understands what depression does to people and who desperate they become to feel something - anything even pain. I’ve known people who have self abused to deal with their mental problems - people who are not coping mentally do do extreme things.
And another thing Christian as a consumer of porn you should know that having sex with someone from behind in a standing position doesn’t necessarily mean it’s anal.
Wow, so Sarah isn’t allowed to be honest with how she felt during some of the scenes ? Do you people have any idea how much this character meant to her and continues to mean to her ? She has stated time and again that this is probably the best role she’ll ever have and would be proud to be known as Buffy for the rest of her life. She felt degraded because the character was being degraded, in an abusive relationship where, for a good portion of it, she had to play the subordinate party. I.E. being taken from behind on a balcony while being forced to watch her friends down below. Nice. Comparisons to Harvard Man are idiotic, because that character was an empowered woman who was in complete control of her sex life. Yes, she was also a complete and immoral bitch, but that has nothing to do with it. That was the character she signed up for. I highly doubt that when Sarah signed the 7-year contract for Buffy she expected the character to be abused the way she was. I thank her for speaking up, because she sure as hell is speaking for a large number of fans. The writers ripped Buffy apart in the last two seasons and she never recovered.
Poor Sarah, I am not surprised she felt degraded after all those disgusting sex scenes. Especially with a practically naked man, nearly twice her age. She may be a well piad actress, but she is also human and has feelings.
As for all the people who think that’s what love is all about, that Spuffy
is realistic and true to life, it’s so not true, I feel very sorry for you.
Sarah has done a wonderful job of playing Buffy for 7 seasons. She deserves our thanks not criticism.
Okay...well most of you people are typing super long paragraphs about this, but I only have a few lines to say. Sarah has every right to feel the way she does, but she doesn’t, and should not have, complained about it to a magizane interviewer. Being an uprising actress myself, one of the many things we learn as actors is that what is on the script is what you do, no matter how degrating it may seem. If you dont like it, then quit, and don’t film the scene. Sarah is acting as if she filmed a Buffy porno, when really all she did was sit fully clothed on top of James Marsters, and shake her hips around a little. Most of the sex scenes were cut out of the show (in which i wish people could find the dialies to) so I don’t see why she finds it so degrating. Her being 27 years old, I’m sure she has done many real life sex situations more degrating than that. "Harvard Man" for instance, when her character had sex in the forest with the another character...now that was more degrating than anything. Actually, every sex scene in that movie was like soft-core porn. If the FCC lets the Buffy sex scenes on TV, then they can’t be that horrible. As for the bruises Sarah is complaining about, her stunt double does most of the work for her. And if Sarah is (or was) getting all bruised up, maybe its because she is just skin and bones...she really should eat something.
G - I think you’re missing the point of what the Spuffy relationship was supposed to represent in S6. That’s a huge part of what Sarah found degrading ; it had nothing to do with the sex itself. It was the nature of that sexual relationship that irked her. That wasn’t Buffy. And perhaps her opinion (and mine, for that matter) would have changed if we saw the writers allow Buffy to recover in S7. But they didn’t even bother.
And how could she have quit ? She had a 7-year contract and if she refused to do those scenes she would have been sued. She was devoted to the character and the show and the people working on it, so she sucked it up and did her job. And treated everyone on the set with nothing but respect. The show’s over now and she’s free to express her opinion, and I say more power to her.
The thing is that Buffy was depressed during s.6 and therefore behaving in a unusual way. By depressed I mean depressed in the mental illness way (have no interest or euthanism for life itself) not I’ve had a bad day kind of way. She was seeking a way to feel something even something extreme - I’m not sure SMG understands that - self-abusers can face contempt from people who don’t understand the reasons for their actions. It takes too long here to go into the effects of clinical depression but I’ve known sufferers - it’s very common they reckon something like one in three people will be affected by it at some stage in their lives. I can understand who SMG feels but JM wasn’t too happy at some of the things he had to do that season but unlike SMG he seems to have understood there was a point to it all - that this stuff wasn’t just written to titilate the audience or degrade the actors. The infamous balcony scene is there to show Buffy’s detatchment and Spike is exploiting it in order to possess her for example.
Although I accept SMG’s right to her opinion I also agree it’s a bit off to voice it in public, I don’t like the way MT has decided to air her issues the show either - it shows a lack of respect for the show and the fans IMO. I’m not saying SMG is a bad person - we don’t know her reasons for this - but she doesn’t involve herself much with the fan side of things and I thought it was a bit off she didn’t attend the wrap party when both MT and JM came back from Europe to do so.
How can you say Buffy was not allowed to recover as a character during s.7. If she helped Spike and came to care for him during s.7 it’s because she saw that he had changed because ultimately he cared enough to do that for her. It takes a lot of strength to forgive someone and it also takes a lot of bravery to accept the need to change yourself for the better and then to do as Andrew said "redemption is hard". Yes, s.6 Spuffy ain’t how love is supposed to be but I’m behind it because in s.7 these people cared enough for each other to put the bad stuff behind them and fight for each other.
Can I also add two things - one is that I think some of the comments about SMG being lucky have been appalling - I think part of the reason for her unhappiness may have been due to having to do sex scenes whilst plan her wedding. Freddie Prinz Jnr. has also expressed negative views about BtvS and the view that in his opinion his Mrs is "too good for tv" and you can see why in this light. You can see it can’t SMG does home to her fiance and answers "how was your day dear" with "it sucked I had to pretend to be shagged from behind". Personally I think JM is way cuter than Freddie Prinz Jnr (and seems to be a nicer person) but SMG obviously doesn’t share my opinion and so for her those scenes were trying. It’s a taste thing, some guys reckoned to be gorgeous do nothing for me, George Clooney for one although he seems like a good bloke for interviews.
The second is that anti-Spuffys judge s.6 Spike actions against Angel’s whilst in some ways it should be judged against Angelius’s. Spike didn’t have a soul and if his behaviour sucked then that was a result of that. The whole point of bathroom incident in "Seeing Red" is the realisation on his part that to be evil means you will hurt the one you love because you don’t understand the word "no" - being a demon is about the forfillment of selfish desires. The difference being he cared enough to try and change that - redemption isn’t just being sorry for something it’s the active attempt to try and change so you don’t do it again. Buffy understood that the vampire with a soul isn’t the same person as the vampire without one - the former is a person worth saving, worth loving, and his applies to BOTH of the vampires with souls.
Also for the interview I read with SMG in a magazine called "The Big Issue" gave the impression that she thought that s.7 was a return to form and she was happy with so Jo your opinion that Buffy was a character was not allowed to recover after s.6 was not shared by SMG.
ok you’ve got something to say - say it English especially if it’s something insulting otherwise I’ll get a mate of mine to translate what you’ve said and also get her to give you back the reply.
If you are trying to get one over on me it’s "c’est ne pas grand, c’est ne pas clair".
I fully understand your reaction because I haven’t made myself clear and I think the translation you got is not right. I really didn’t mean to insult anybody of you and sorry if you took it that way cos it was not my intention. By the way I don’t understand : "ce n’est pas grand, ce n’est pas clair" what does it mean ?
Why put something in French it just seems odd to me - the phrase I used is the nearest my school French can dredge up to say "it’s not big and it’s not clever". I couldn’t remember the word for clever so I used the word for bright instead. I’ve put what you said into babelfish and it said that what you were saying is basically that I have the mentality of a two year old for debating so much about something which is so insignificant - that’s fairly insulting unless you meant to be playful. I have sent it to a mate who did a degree in French so when she gets back to me I will know what you were trying to say - things do get lost in translation but if you didn’t want that to happen then maybe you should have said what you were going to say in English ?.
I know that there are more important things in the world than fictional characters and how those who play them feel about them but Joss did put a lot of thought into his world and it does annoy me when people insist on ripping bits of it to shreads because they don’t understand what he was trying to say. I think if you have an unjustified hatred of a character or an arc then you do need to have the alternative point of view pointed out to you because you are missing something important. Besides I’m a devil’s advocate I feel obliged to point out the other side and I think it’s good for the soul to try and look at things from the other side, it helps you be more reasonable and tolerant in general - the world needs a little more of that - there are too many people who just act on their biases and are unjustifiably snarky to people because of them. I also find maybe it’s the part of me that misses constructing an arguement for essays which quite enjoys the debate - it’s not a two year old thing, I find it helps flex the brain muscles so to speak.
It’s just a personal thing but I get a bit sick of some people using every single chance they get to rip into the last two seasons of BtvS, into Spuffy and into Spike when there is another side to things they don’t see. I also dislike the more extreme of B/A shippers and Angel fans because of this and because I think they have a rose-tinted view of both Angel himself and of Buffy and Angel’s relationship. Also who are you to tell me how I should or should not spend my time - if I want to waste my time arguing on these forums then as both Brittany and Bobby sang - that’s my perogative. You are of course free to ignore me or argue back - that’s yours.
I can’t believe it ! I am french and I ’m deeply ashamed of the atitude of my compatriot. I swear that french people are definitly not at all as rude, as moronic and as intolerant, in no way. The translation of Babelfish is right : whatever he or she meant it was actually insulting, not at all in a playfull or teasing way. However, the fact is that his wording shows that he wasn’t speaking to you Kat or especially about what you said. I assume it concerns some aspect of the debate that occurs (which could be questionable in a way).
Je m’adresse à la personne qui a écrit en français : la critique est utile quand elle est constructive et qu’elle ne rend pas le débat stérile. N’oublie pas que Dieu t’as doté d’une merveiileuse chose qui est utile à ses moments : un cerveau.
Ok, I’ve had the translation of the post in French back and I can see that the poster was not being insulting to me personally.
It was quite rude and a bit harsh but I can understand the exasperation behind it and in a sense getting so vitroilic about fiction and what a former star of that fiction thinks of it is a wee bit silly.
I think as Ledbaby said we really shouldn’t be spending our time tearing our beloved show and the people both real and fictional in it to bits - I don’t like SMG or MT’s comments for that reason but I also respect their right to say it as they’ve both been a part of why the show was so great. IMO it served us well for all seven years and even the nay-says of the last two seasons (who I get a bit peeved at) would admit we had three-five good years (and in seasons two and three a couple of great ones) which is better than a lot of shows can manage. One of my friends who is a person of "the last season sucked" annoying ilk would admit that even at it’s worst BtvS was usually better than a lot of shows. It always tried to be interesting and thought provoking even if some of what it tried to do didn’t quite come off at times. Also the last two seasons did give us "Once more with feeling" and "Conservations with Dead People" surely if for nothing else than that we should be thankful. SMG did a good job no matter what she thought of the material and for that we should be thankful too.
As pre-stated in a previous - I think some of why I feel compelled to post is I can’t stand the way some people feel compelled to slag off specific characters, relationships and seasons of the show. Some of us could do with learning to live and let live at little.
You know, My Fiancee and I over the last two months watched the entire series on the shiny used dvd’s we purchased from wonderful little dvd-trade shops, and I thought the sex-scenes were done tastefully. HOWEVER, I can see how from a womans Point of view that she could have felt degraded just b/c of the fact that they were "Rough sex" and at times "unwanted sex". If you look back to the scene with angel, Which metaphorically explores the downside of teenage sex for females (Men become evil monsters afterwars), you’ll notice that it was very discrete and what they showed was beautiful and sensual. That Scenes that involved spike, were as aforementioned rough. I believe that Sarah may have just been feeling like the idea of Buffy’s feministic strength was compromised.
I think we all should remember that Joss Whedon had a very feministic agenda with this entire series that gave the idea of empowerment to women everywhere which is a wonderful thing. As for those people who say that seasons 6-7 were terrible... I can’t imagine why. If you view the series on a storyline basis (episode by episode, each evaluated for its own merit) these seasons just brimmed with excitement and enthusiasm for what was going to happen next. It would be a dream come true for myself and my fiancee if the BtVS story were continued further in Television or movie format. There is so much that could have been done with the details of the final episode, I’d just love to see its fruition.
The ONLY complaint I have is that it ended. (ok, maybe also that Xander lost an eye then lost Anya too... it seemed really unfair.)
Kat - If you really believe Joss put a lot of thought into the show, I suggest you watch the last two seasons more carefully. ;) I understand completely what Joss was "trying" to say with the storylines. They just sucked is all, and I’m not afraid to say that because I feel the show raised the bar incredibly high in its first 5 seasons. So yes, I feel like that criticism is merited because I felt like the show was capable of so much more to finish its final years on the air. I’m not going to say the seasons were great or even good because I think it’s our duty as fans to be honest with how we felt when we watched it, otherwise what’s the point ? S6 and 7 were dreadfully dull, the idea of "monsieur metaphor" was completely traded in for storylines that would drop anvils on all of our heads : Willow’s magic !crack storyline ; sex scenes that left nothing to the imagination ; unnecessary attempted rape scenes in which the audience was shown the effects it had on the rapist rather than the victim - and for which I have unending sympathy for SMG who had to go through that scene when it ultimately meant so little to her character ; S7 was the dull Spike and Buffy show and every character was made into a mockery of their former selves ; plot holes you could drive a truck through ; What did Xander do in the final season ? Drive people around and fix shit. Wow. Great character development ; the lamest villain who ever lamed and his misogynistic sidekick - very clever ; a deux ex machina to end the series with the magical scythe and a bunch of lame guardians we’ve never heard of who do absolutely nothing. Do I have to go on ? I don’t doubt Whedon’s brilliance - I just wish he would have used it in seasons 6 and 7. As for B/A and Angel fans having "rose-tinted" views of the characters, I find it interesting how often that is said by people who defend the final two seasons. Not only is it insulting to my intelligence as a loyal viewer of the series, it’s also a very easy way to escape any type of argument, I suppose.
It’s funny how only Spuffy fanatics have the right to criticize the rest of the fandom. While us poor deluded B/A shippers and Angel fans have no idea of what we are watching through our rose-tinted specs. Perhaps to be a Spike/Spuffy Fan you have to be very like the character himself, arrogant, annoying, contemptuous of others, and thoroughly convinced you are right....Well I am glad I am not a Spike fan then.
Yes, but I also like to think that I also possess his virtue of trying to looking at things in a truthful way, even if it means admitting things that are painful, and stand up for what matters to me. I have pride too and refuse to be crushed by people who have no understanding or respect. Ok I could be insulting too - I do think that some Angel fans share his tendancy towards being insufferably santimonous and self-righteous and not listening to other people when they should. Unlike you I also have the guts to put my name to my opinion however "arrogant" it is. You don’t like my opinion fine - disagree with it - but don’t insult me personally, you don’t know me and it’s just plain rude. Ok my opinion is just that but I do think about what I watch and I have read others people’s opinions on it and I do try to be objective even if complete objective is impossible everyone sees things in their own way. I’m not sure some of the more extreme B/A shippers make that attempt.
Yes you have a right to your negative opinion of Spuffy, the final two series of BtvS and Spike but it does annoy me the way that these seem to be expressed with a fair amount of spitefulness and in the manner which indictates at least to me that you believe your opinions to be gospel truth. More extreme B/A fans have a way of making anyone who questions their beliefs into a heretic whose blasphemy most be destroyed. I’m sorry if that sounds hysteronic but that’s the way it appears to me sometimes. I don’t think you see how extreme some of you are. If Spuffys are arrogant then it cuts both ways.
I have stated that those scenes were probably hard for SMG and yes she has a right to her opinions I’m not one of the people saying "boo hoo cry into your money" or "you should count yourself lucky to be with such a fit looking bloke" - I deplore that mentality as much as your attitudes if not more. I’m just not happy with the way she’s chosen to vent them in public - but that’s just me and I will admit I could be wrong.
As with the debate about the Shanshu what annoys me is the lack of attempt to see the other side here. Yes some of the metaphors in season six were heavy handed, the scene in "Seeing Red" amongst others in s.6 is critised in an article called "the pitfalls of television" - I don’t agree with some of what’s said but the case is put with reason and intelligence. I think you have try and understand what JW was trying to do even if you disagree with it.
Jo, I’m sorry if I came across as insulting to you and yes you do have the right to hate the final two seasons of Buffy. Yes I do think B/A shippers have a rose tinted view of their relationship and of him as a character - have you watched Angel the series just out of interest because if you have you would have seen some morally questionable actions from Angel with a soul. A poster from another forum a Xander fan has said that in their belief they couldn’t forgive Angel for intially behaving like a coward during the season finale of s.1 - I think there were reasons for that that he was just learning to be a hero and it took him a while to find the courage to do that but I state this just to illustrate it’s not just me who sees faults in El Broody.
I’m not using the "rose-tinted" view statement to avoid an arguement in fact if anything I have the opposite problem I’m stubborn and arguementative. Just because I don’t think something sucked doesn’t mean I think it was flawless. "It sucked" is not a constructive arguement but then you do explain why it sucked and in some cases you are right - in s.6 -the metaphors were a bit heavy handed in some cases, some episodes had pacing problems and some like "Double Meat Palace" were just not very good. As I said see the "pitfalls of tv" article which makes some of those points and does so within understanding the alternative viewpoint and what JW was trying to do.
JM stated that the reason why he’s proud of the scene in "Seeing Red" in spite of having found it incredible traumatic to do(probabaly as tramatic as SMG found "Dead Things" and he also said that after the scene everyone rushed to SMG to see that she was ok but no one did that for him - whatever you think of the scene it wasn’t his fault he had to it and he deserved some support for it) that it does make the point that sometimes that particular evil that men do is sometimes down to mis-understanding and the desperate attempt to stop someone from leaving - a bit like the guy who shot his soon to be ex in "I only have eyes for you" - it was someone doing something stupid and destructive in a "moment of blind passion" as Buffy put it. Like that it was also down to the fact he couldn’t understand she was leaving because of a moral reason, this is WRONG. The other point of that scene is to show both to him as a character and the audience evil will hurt even what it loves because it’s evil and it doesn’t know how to behave. What Buffy saw in season seven is that he cared enough to try and change that to become a decent person so not to hurt the person he loved again and go through a lot of a pain and effort to do it. If you don’t see that then you don’t but at least I’ve made the point. I also think that anything that reinforces the truth that "no means no" no matter what other circumstances there are is helpful and helps fight against the dangerous myths peddled by films such as "Gone with the Wind" and "Straw Dogs" - if it’s from the perpertrator’s POV it’s to show how dangerous it is to believe such myths for a perpertrator.
"The pitfalls of tv" article states that looked at objectively Spike did not get more screen time than anyone else during the last two seasons it just appears that way because he was involved with the heroine. Xander did not just fix things and ferry people about. He made two incredibly beautiful speeches - probably amongst the best in the entire of the season - he also acted as a voice of reason and of compassion in "Get It Done" attempting to remind Buffy that in spite of the mission the people she was laying into were her friends and reminding Anya that in spite of her grievances they needed Buffy back. It has been said the reason why things fell apart after Xander was blinded is he was the glue that held them together. There were episodes which touched on his and Anya’s attempt to sort out their relationship too. Yes, there were plot holes in season seven but there were good things too. The villian attacked people physchologically rather than physically I found that interesting and a bit different, some people argeed with me and some didn’t - neither opinion is necessarily more valid than the other. The same goes for Caleb too - one poster found the First interesting but thought Caleb was a revertion to a "oh someone’s more strong than Buffy how will she defeat them ?" cliche than had been played out with Adam and Glory. Again an opinion not mine and obviously not yours. I enjoyed season seven and found it had interesting things to say and the nature of power and redemption. What annoys me is not that people didn’t like the last two seasons but they seem not to understand that some people did and voice their opinions in a way that seems to indicate that they think every rational person shares their view - not the case. To reply to the person who finds me arrogant - I think this is arrogant too.
BTW guys if you haven’t already read it the link to the pitfalls of tv article is
http://www.buffy.nu/article.php3 ?id_article=1321
it does have relevance to SMG’s opinions here and supports some of what people of all opinions believe. I don’t agree with all of it but it makes an interesting case - section III is especially relevant.
Probably because she was contractly obliged but also the word everyone uses in describing her is "professional" - a professional always gets on the job and gives it their all no matter what. We should really be grateful in a way SMG was still prepared to give her all in spite of not liking the material - it shows great disapline and respect on her part.
My opinion is that when Sarah signed on with Joss to play Buffy she wanted to be a good role model for young viewers. The dark Buffy with the questionable sex scenes is what she didn’t like. It was a betrayal of her agreement with Joss. Sarah thought the sex was not necessary to tell the story. Also the show was going in the wrong direction. As the star of the show she needed to say what she felt even if it did no good. To say she felt degraded as an actress. I think she meant to say that she felt that she was degrading Buffy. Just my opinion. I still like Sarah and her work. As for her other sex scenes in other movies,those are individual movies. Sex in Buffy was ruining Buffy. I think she wanted Buffy to be about good vs. evil.
I agree with you except that I don’t think Sarah was right. I think her concerns were geunine and she has a right to them but I don’t think she understood season six, along with a lot of the fans.There was still the sense of good verses evil but Buffy was in the wrong because her life had gone up in smoke and how she did something desperate in an attempt to feel better about herself or indeed to feel anything at all. Although Dark Willow’s words to Buffy about the things she’s done because she life sucked were harsh they were also true. The season DVD’s overview feature is called "Life is the Big Bad" which was what season six was about how you make wrong choices because your life is going wrong. The last two seasons had some pretty strong content in them - in season six it was sex and in the final season violence but that was to make the point that as you get older the stakes get higher. Season six was about the crucible of growing up and how you make some lousy decisions when learning to do it I don’t think that the content was inapproriate.
So i read alot of people talking about SMG’s other movies like "Havard man", saying things like nothing in Buffy was as bad as anything in that particular movie, which i do agree with. But i think the other reason alot of people are confussed, is because Sarah choose to be in this film, she new what she was getting herself into, she had to have read this script because no actress would go into a movie that blindly.On the other hand she really couldn’t have known what was really going to happen to her character on Buffy, but she had to see that it was comming. In Sarah’s deffence alot of times her words are twisted into petty medie fotter,you have to keep in mind that all interviewers want is "the story". The only thing that really urks me is that it seems that SMG wants to be painted as the victom, when in all actuality i bet alot of the actors on that show felt degraded at one point in there careers. JM especially, who told an about.com interviewer that if some of the scenes that were in B.6, were in a script for a movie he wouldn’t take the job....but seriously if all we have to talk about is SMG’s problems, then we’ve all got alot of ower own to worry about !!
OK, if all you guys are gonna do is bitch about the show, it’s actors, writers and producers, maybe you should find a new website to play with ??
I think many of us are forgetting that the subject is about [the lovely and TALENTED] SMG’s feelings towards - not the show -but a specific part of it. So what ? She didn’t particularly enjoy faking mad sex, even though it was with the lovely James Marsters ? Neither would I, truth to tell. I can see where she’s coming from about feeling exhausted and drained. For example, she and James have both said they are very close friends, yet imagine the horror they felt when they were told of Spike’s attempted rape on Buffy. Do you approach the scene as an actor, a friend, or a collegue ? The same principle can be applied to the rougher sex scenes, because - honsetly - would any of YOU feel comfortable doing that with your best friend ? I know I wouldn’t.
I think we should all read and understand SMG’s statement for what it is ; her feelings towards the slightly kinkier sex scenes ; not her underlying feelings towards the show itself.
Uh.... anyone notice what paper is claiming this story ? Just my personal opinion, but is the Daily Star’s strength not in choosing the right page 3 girl as opposed to controversial statements ? Maybe something to consider.....
I understand your concern about people bitching about the show and I understand that SMG was mostly very complimentary towards it. However, I’ve read other stuff about the fact that SMG was not happy with s.6 and was vocal about it both at the time and in retrospect. I’m not saying she sucks and as far as I understand her views seem confined to s.6 - the magazine interview I read seem to indicate that she thought s.7 was a return to form but her decision to quit seems to have to do with her unhappiness over Joss delegating artist control and I think his decision to quit Buffy after s.7 may well have at least been a catalyst for hers.
She does have a right to her concerns and I think some posters ought to be ashamed the vindictive comments they have made about her here but equally I don’t like the way some people in the anti-Spuffy and "the last two seasons sucked" camps have taken it as a vindication of their views. It is not - it is one person’s opinion and unless the view expressed is Joss’s or possibly another writer’s then it is not much more valid than anyone else’s viewpoint. SMG is neither a hero or a villian for stating her point of view and it depresses me that she was talked about as though she was either. It is also worth mentioning that JM did not have a fun time with s.6 but appears to have got what the show was trying to do with s.6 more than SMG did. I am not saying she is a bad person because of that - it’s just that you can say I wouldn’t want do that again or I hated doing that whilst seeing why it was there and I kinda of wish she’d done that. I can’t complain that she could have voiced her views better as she has probably been misquoted.
It depresses me that fan debate has got so polarised - that some people have become so frankly bloody unreasonable that they think it’s ok to be downright vitriolic about what they don’t like and in some cases equally abusive to those who dare to voice the opposite opinion. Along with the lust bunnies it has totally blighted the whole world of fandom. Could everyone just try and act their ages and not their shoe sizes - please.
I tend to disagree with people finding the sex in season 6 of "Buffy" more explicit or such then what Buffy did with Angel and Riley on "Buffy" and "Angel". For starters, Buffy never kisses down Spike’s chest or licks ice cream off it as she did with Angel and Riley ; respectively. Her explicit sex in "Smashed" was not really that much more than a combination of jumping on Angel in "I Will Remember You" and after she jumps on Riley after they kill a combo demon team.
In general, Buffy is more nude in her sex scenes with Angel and especially with Riley, the two that come to mind are in "Where the Wild Things Are" and her sweatiness in "Into the Woods." And she is nude and grinding with Parker. Her nudeness with Spike is mostly after the fact with "Dead Things" being the exception but those scenes were VERY brief.
That Buffy got with Spike, I saw the portents of that back in Season 2 actually beginning with Drusilla’s excessive need to have Spike kill Buffy, FOR HER (Drusilla), and the way Buffy looks at Spike as he exits the window in "School Hard". Various things including Buffy’s teasing of Spike lead eventually to "Something Blue" where Buffy’s conversation with Willow in the beginning of the episode clearly suggests she is thinking about maybe getting with Spike because she feels their relationship could have the passion and intensity of that which she had with Angel. And even in "Out of My Mind" Buffy tells Riley that if she wanted to date a superhuman which would be dating Spike, which shocked me "out of my mind" that she would say that, espicially to Riley, or even consciously think of that.
What upset me and what maybe is what Sarah and James were upset and disappointed about was what their characters’ relationship turned into after "Once More With Feeling". Since the beginning of the season when Buffy walks down the stairs to meet Spike, after running from her friends and being somewhat uncomfortable around her sister, we were lead to believe Buffy and Spike would have a nice healthy relationship. They were having a very platonic thing going and innnuendo from Spike. However, after their first kiss Buffy forever tells Spike during the season she has no real feelings for him and Spike purposefully humiliates Buffy sexually, especially with the Balcony scene and the suggestions, not shot, that Spike ties, handcuffs, and does other degrading things to Buffy. And this can include Spike’s comment in the beginning of "Wrecked" while presumably "inside her" and after he kisses hard or actually bites her neck that he knew "The only thing better than killing a slayer would be f-" and the comment in "Dead Things" again in the beginning that he has "never been with such an animal". This culminiates in the most shocking moment in the season : the Bathroom scene. Spike learns from Dawn that Buffy was hurt by her seeing Spike with Anya when given Buffy’s reaction to him and caring more about what Xander thinks of her then about Spike in "Entrophy" Spike probably thought Buffy hated him and so is drinking excessively. So he goes to apologize and she refuses to talk to at first and classically denies she has any true feelings for him so Spike decides to try to force her to have sex with him.
In conclusion, especially given Sarah’s scenes in "Harvard Man" and "Cruel Intentions" it was most probably the nature of what the writers made the Buffy and Spike realtionship to be during season 6 which was degrading, especially given the role model and heroine Buffy is supposed to be, even more especially since it is suggested that BUFFY and not SPIKE made their realtionship degrading and purely sexual. But this is somewhat redeemed in Season 7 when Spike forces an initial purely platonic relationship between them. The quote (not sure if perfect), "Where not best friends anymore, so sorry for me, I’m not sharing." is poignant here. And VERY significantly Sarah and James to not have even on onscreen kiss for the whole season even as Willow is going at it with Kennedy and Xander is going at it with Anya and Buffy straddles, and possibly actually pony rides RJ.
Of course I ment Riley and Angel, respectively. And the "Smashed" comment I ment SMG playing Faith and gives Riley a lap dance and licking his lips with her tongue.
For women in general, especially when young, most sex is degrading because they do not get off on it. Now for sex scenes I would imagine all sex scenes are degrading because you do them in front of a lot of people and like kissing scenes more takes are done than neccessary simply for the directors or such’s pleasure. And in our culture when a woman does such things she is considered a slut or such while a man is considered a stud. It is notable in the commentary on the Angel episode "Destiny" with Juliet Landau in the commentary nothing is talked about the on-screen David roughly pounding Juliet.
And why would SMG logically and rationally go to the Wrap Party when it is known that she is supposedly solely responsible for the ending of the series ? Even in the DVD showing of it, it showed reporters asking everyone what they thought of the shows ending and everyone basically said it was the right time, does anyone think Sarah would not have gotten badgered by this. Also, in general, Sarah has actually mostly said she would miss working with James Marsters because as she said in EW they became like "brother and sister" but she knew he was going to work another year on "Angel" anyway and really what would a Season 8 be about ? The thing her character needed to deal with was her self-loathing relationship with Spike and that was done, they ended being best friends, probably lovers again, and a mutual recognition that they did love each other but not to the depts of their loves for Angel and Drusilla. The only interesting thing Season 8 could have been about is it Spike becomes evil again and decides to get back with Drusilla and get a gang together and start killing off slayers and thus Buffy and he have a holy war.
As for the Scooby Doo thing, she got to work with her fiance and then husband and Harvard Man and Cruel Intentions were good as the Resident Evil films were in that they could have been absolutely awful but were not as bad as they could have been and this was because of the leading actresses. I actually thought HM and CI were actually fairly good, and commented on what people who seemingly have everything do for excitement and what is more exciting then kinky manipulative sex, though I watched them on cable and would NEVER have thought of going to see them in a theater or buying the DVDs.
Below is another rant on why Buffy and Spike getting together in itself was not such a bad thing.
In retrospect, SMG did not mind playing the Buffybot and Jane Espenson or someone in one of the DVD commentaries said that she enjoyed playing the Buffybot. And given in "Invention" SMG as the Buffbot off-screen is suggesting just having given James/Spike oral before Xander comes in his crypt. And James/Spike slides his nose down her body suggesting of course he is about to as the quote in "Pulp Fiction" gives her "oral pleasure" and her riding James/Spike in the graveyard.
While in reviews and such, especially on some internet sites, people thought the Buffybot sick and uneccessary for me it demonstrated two very important things : (1) Spike has a loving relationship with it and despite his constantly having sex with it is very nice to it and (2) its happiness constrasted with just how depressed Buffy herself was and has not much to live for, that is she does not feel she has any loving connection with anyone. Her Mother died, Riley left, she does not seem to feel anything daugtherly love for Giles and her love for Dawn is the only thing keeping her going and she feels Dawn might die at the hands of Glory.
Given Spike seems to want a genuinely loving relationship with Buffy as is demonstrated by the Buffybot and his caring for her in "Fool For Love" and throughout till "Tabula Rasa" and that Buffy wants to feel and be loved and is amused by Spike and he makes her laugh and such and the fact they have a lot in common including the sexual satisfaction they get in getting in a good kill, most poignant for Buffy in "Something Blue" "I’m dying for a good slay" and the fact she DOES NOT KILL HIM despite his multiple attempts to kill her especially in "Fool For Love" minutes after his declaring the first opportunity he gets he will kill her and then showing up at her house with a shotgun she allows him to comfort her this run on sentence suggests Buffy has real feelings for Spike as is mostly demonstrated in Season 7 and Spike has real feelings for Buffy as mostly demonstrated in Season 5.
About all the darkness and demoness about a relationship with Spike, the most loving relationship on Buffy was that of Spike and Drusilla before Angel becomes Angelus. For her birthday Angel deflowers Buffy while Spike gives Drusilla a priceless present. And about dark, the first sex with Riley is literally cut with their killing a demon together meaning the kill was the catalyst. And afterwards most of their on-screen stuff, the most intense stuff anyways is after they kill demons or are possessed as in "Where the Wild Things Are".
Obviously I am very passionate about this topic. This is my first posting, abeit the above one, but I have always felt strongly that Buffy and Spike getting together in itself was not dark but that their relationship became about S&M and domination and humilation and VERY unloving is what was dark.
I have strongly believed Buffy loves Angel, never loved Parker or Riley or Ben but desperately wanted to love someone human, and LOVED SPIKE when he was evil, her most poignant remark in "Get Things Done" when she says to Spike she does not want wimpy, winey, Souled Spike she wants "the Spike that tried to kill her when [they] first met". And I have believed Buffy cries in Tara’s lap not because she was using Spike but because she felt she actually did love Spike and it is because he was USING HER and did not anymore put her on a pedestal like Angel and Riley and Season 5 Spike did.
ANYWAYS, I rant too much. Basically, the Balcony Scene and the Bathroom Scene were both out of character moments and both initiated by Spike actually. The DMP sex was about what during working hours and after sex really is, it is an escape for the tedium and boredom of work. This is why the secretary thing happens. It is also work noting that despite the degrading nature of it Spike is not rough with her and actually wants to kiss her during it and really it happens because Buffy is pulling a double shift and Spike drops by to see why she has not visited him.
For those of you who might complain about the length of this, how irrelevant is "I hate Sarah" and "Sarah should shut up and be glad to be with James". For the former, the performance and the entertainment of a performer and actor is what is important not the person itself. And for the latter Sarah had actually said to EW and such that she wanted her character to get with Spike after Angel left so obviously the degrading stuff was about what that the producers and writers decided the relationship itself should be degrading that is was MUCH darker then that which Spike and Drusilla had.
Off topic sort of : the diehard B/A fans and especially the ones for some reason or another somehow actually liked the Buffy/Riley relationship seem to have wanted Spike to get with the sweetest character on the show Willow in Season 4 after their "attempted rape" scene in "The Initiative" so for anyone to say a relationship with Spike in and of inself is inherently dark and degrading is flawed.
For starters, what actually got on the air is not near what Sarah and James actually had to do. Second by end of Season 5 Sarah and James had become very close friends and James did not want the characters to get together because he did not want to have to kiss and grind with Sarah.
I’ve seen clips of dailies including DMP, Dead Things, and Smashed, and in all of those Sarah and James are laughing and making jokes about during takes.
Sarah has vocally expressed her not wanting to do the balcony scene and even though I had always thought Buffy and Spike would eventually get together given all the inferences and Sarah even wanting her character to get with Spike after David left (from EW) I was VERY disturbed by that. Spike comes off as EXTREMELY creepy. Notice in her "dream" — artistically and thematically to mimic the one she has with Angel in "Innocense" the balcony scene is not even included.
In general, a lot of the takes and scenes Sarah and James had to do, the directors and writers KNEW would not get on the air. A lot of it was Rated R stuff.
James Marsters himself has said he felt used and degraded by needing to be naked all the time on the set.
In general, this is after the show ended, so I imagine she was talking about the stuff with Riley as well. On screen she seems to have NO chemistry with Marc Blucas and Marc is awkward in those scenes, especially in "Where the Wild Things Are". She probably did not mid the stuff with David, because it was needed for the shows progression and ratings and she and David were such good friends. The stuff with Spike in general, she probably did not mind for the same reason, but needing to do a scene like the balcony scene over and over again and needing to do stuff that everyone knew was never going to get on the air WOULD be degrading. And I have read that the crew and cameraman and sometimes directors made lewd and rude comments like "You’re turning me on." and "That’s why they call him "Spike"."
Sarah is a great actor who brought enormous depth and subtlety to Buffy who could have easily been a boring and annoying character. I imagine back before season four that she would wanted to have had a relationship similiar to Angel, ableit more steamy, with Spike instead of the S&M and abuse that was portrayed.
I hope the best for Sarah and James and hope Oscar is in their futures as they were obviously shunned for at least an Emmy each. I mean Saturn awards just don’t have the clout in Hollywood.
WHAT A BUNCH OF ASSHOLES. YOUR JEALOUSLY OF SARAH MICHELLE GELLAR IS SO BLATANTLY PATHETIC. THIS WOMAN IS A GREAT ACTRESS, A GORGEOUS AND LOVELY YOUNG LADY AND A GOOD PERSON. AND....SINCE THIS IS AMERICA, SHE HAS THE POWER OF FREE SPEECH. SARAH IS NOT THE ONLY ONE THAT DIDN’T LIKE THE STORYLINES OF S6 - JAMES HAS ALSO SAID HE HATED DOING THE SEEING RED ATTEMPTED RAPE SCENE. MANY, MANY, MANY TIMES. HOW COME NO ONE JUMPS ALL OVER MARSTERS WHEN HE VOICES HIS OPINIONS ? MS. GELLAR LOVED THAT SHOW - SHE INVESTED HER ENTIRE HEART AND SOUL INTO IT AND IT SHOWED RIGHT THROUGH TO THE END. IF YOU CANNOT SEE THAT, IT IS BECAUSE YOU HAVE YOUR OWN AGENDA AND WERE SO FUCKED UP FROM YOUR SICK AND TWISTED SPIKE ADDICTIONS TO SEE THE STORYLINE FOR WHAT IT ACTUALLY WAS, AND TO APPRECIATE MS. GELLAR’S ACTING ABILITIES CLEARLY. I AM QUITE SURE ALL OF YOU FOUL-MOUTHED CRETINS HAVE SEEN THE DAILIES, WHICH CLEARLY SHOW IN LIVING COLOR JUST HOW GRACIOUS MS. GELLAR IS AS AN ACTRESS, AND HOW MUCH OF HERSELF SHE GAVE TO THAT ROLE. IF THE DIRECTOR CUT HER SCENES TO MAKE A POINT, IT IS NOT HER FAULT. SHE GAVE IT HER ALL. OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN. BUT, BEING THE TWEAKOS THAT YOU PEOPLE ARE, YOU WANKED YOUR WAY AROUND THE ENTIRE LAST TWO SEASONS OF THE SHOW TO MAKE IT "ALL ABOUT SPIKE" WHEN. IT. JUST. WASN’T. I KNOW WHO MOST OF YOU ARE WHO STILL FIND IT SO NECESSARY TO CONTINUALLY RAG ON MS. GELLAR AND IT IS BEYOND SAD THAT YOU IDIOTS STILL HAVEN’T MOVED ON. YOU ARE ALL SO INCREDIBLY PISSED OFF THAT SARAH IS A BONE FIDE STAR, WHO IS CONTINUALLY WORKING, WHILE MARSTERS IS STILL STRUGGLING TO GET A GIG. FACE IT MORONS, SARAH MICHELLE GELLAR IS, WAS AND WILL ALWAYS BE A STAR. KNOW WHY LOSERS, BECAUSE SHE DESERVES TO BE. SHE IS A DEDICATED HARD WORKING WOMAN.
I THINK YOU ALL BETTER GROW THE FUCK UP AND GO FIND SOMETHING OR SOMEONE ELSE TO BASH. CAUSE LIKE IT OR NOT SARAH MICHELLE GELLAR IS AND WAS BUFFY. NOW SHE IS OFF ONTO OTHER PROJECTS, BUT MAKE NO MISTAKE, SHE IS HERE FOR THE LONG TERM. I WILL BE APPLAUDING HER EVERY ACCOMPLISHMENT - INCLUDING HER WINNING THE INEVITABLE OSCAR.
TO REITERATE - ALL OF YOU BASHERS ARE A BUNCH OF BRAINLESS, INARTICULATE, MORONIC LOSERS - GET A LIFE. NO, BETTER YET - JUST SHUT THE FUCK UP - YOU HAVE NOTHING CONSTRUCTIVE TO SAY ANYWAY, YOU NEVER DID, AND NO ONE WANTS TO HEAR YOUR FEEBLEMINDED, ASININE COMMENTS ANYMORE.
SARAH RULES.
OH AND FACE THE FACT THAT IF THERE EVER IS A BUFFY MOVIE - BUFFY AND ANGEL END UP TOGETHER FOREVER.
I was going to comment on how the last two posters to this thread had some really interesting things to say and how although I can see totally where they were coming from. I had some different perspectives they might find interesting and then I log on and see this ranter is probably the most neutral thing I can say has popped up out of it’s hole to have a go. I hate to be rude but some people just don’t deserve anything else. Ok - lets start with obvious. No one reasonable EVER EVER writes a post entirely in caps - even if what you saying is the most reasonable thing in the world (which believe me you are not) it automatically makes you look like a ranting loony as you are effectively shouting at the top of your voice throughout. The second is that there is a reason most posts are written like sentences in a mixture of upper and lower cases and that’s it’s easier to read that way - trust someone who knows try to read something written entirely in one case is a nightmare.
Ok, teacher now schuffles off to be replaced by the Btvs fan and the Don Quoxide who is driven to do the absolutely futile by some weird drive. I don’t know if you are the same prat who I argued with in similar threads or a mutant strain of the same type but I somehow knew that you were a B/A pillock extremist by the bold type and felt a depressing sense of deja-vu on seeing some all too familar phrases.
"WHAT A BUNCH OF ASSHOLES" cheers, way to go to getting us to listen to you. Grant you some people posting on here badly need to grow up but someone is not a arsehole if they post an opinion that you happen to disagree with, as I said before they last two guys on here argued with intelligence and there have been some interesting opinions of all colours alongside the appalling bigotry shown by some Bangels and Spuffys.
"SARAH IS NOT THE ONLY ONE THAT DIDN’T LIKE THE STORYLINES OF S6 - JAMES HAS ALSO SAID HE HATED DOING THE SEEING RED ATTEMPTED RAPE SCENE. MANY, MANY, MANY TIMES" yes but as I said before he also seemed to have understood what the point that was at least attempted by it.
"IF YOU CANNOT SEE THAT, IT IS BECAUSE YOU HAVE YOUR OWN AGENDA AND WERE SO FUCKED UP FROM YOUR SICK AND TWISTED SPIKE ADDICTIONS TO SEE THE STORYLINE FOR WHAT IT ACTUALLY WAS, AND TO APPRECIATE MS. GELLAR’S ACTING ABILITIES CLEARLY" Ok, I can see how some prats on here might make you think that but I have always been very careful to qualify my critisms of B/As who annoy me as "some B/As" or "B/A extremists" mainly because I get so hacked off with SOME B/As like you assuming that ALL B/S’s are sick little lust bunnies who are blinded from seeing the gospel trust that Spike is the blight that ruined the Buffyverse by their own lust for the character. The whole point that this whole thread illustrates is that there is more than one way to see the storyline of s.6 which I was going to be talking about until you got me so hacked off I felt compelled against my better judgement to reply to you. You can appreciate Ms Geller’s acting without totally agreeing with everything she says - read the thread and you’ll find I’ve done that.
"BUT, BEING THE TWEAKOS THAT YOU PEOPLE ARE, YOU WANKED YOUR WAY AROUND THE ENTIRE LAST TWO SEASONS OF THE SHOW TO MAKE IT "ALL ABOUT SPIKE" WHEN. IT. JUST. WASN’T." Joss has been one to cater towards people who try to bully him into running his show their way which is why you didn’t get your B/A reunion which is why Buffy is probably never going to drift off into the sunset with either vampy bone o’ contention. If Spike featured in the last two seasons it’s because the writers were interested enough in him to come up with material - if you don’t like that fine, it’s not just idiots who disagree with you, so stop being so abusive about it.
"I KNOW WHO MOST OF YOU ARE WHO STILL FIND IT SO NECESSARY TO CONTINUALLY RAG ON MS. GELLAR AND IT IS BEYOND SAD THAT YOU IDIOTS STILL HAVEN’T MOVED ON. YOU ARE ALL SO INCREDIBLY PISSED OFF THAT SARAH IS A BONE FIDE STAR, WHO IS CONTINUALLY WORKING, WHILE MARSTERS IS STILL STRUGGLING TO GET A GIG. FACE IT MORONS, SARAH MICHELLE GELLAR IS, WAS AND WILL ALWAYS BE A STAR. KNOW WHY LOSERS, BECAUSE SHE DESERVES TO BE. SHE IS A DEDICATED HARD WORKING WOMAN"
Actually from where I’m standing they both seem to doing fine to me and good luck to them both. I’d hardly call landing a re-occuring role on a fairly credible and popular tv show "failing to get a gig". The only person who seems to be struggling is poor Nicky Brendon and it’s only because acting seems to be a lot to do with the luck of being in the right role at the right time no matter how good you are .
"I THINK YOU ALL BETTER GROW THE FUCK UP AND GO FIND SOMETHING OR SOMEONE ELSE TO BASH. CAUSE LIKE IT OR NOT SARAH MICHELLE GELLAR IS AND WAS BUFFY. NOW SHE IS OFF ONTO OTHER PROJECTS, BUT MAKE NO MISTAKE, SHE IS HERE FOR THE LONG TERM. I WILL BE APPLAUDING HER EVERY ACCOMPLISHMENT - INCLUDING HER WINNING THE INEVITABLE OSCAR". You are such a hypocrite. You abuse Spuffys are being foul-mouthed and go and use the F word followed by the tirade of abuse in the next sentence.
"TO REITERATE - ALL OF YOU BASHERS ARE A BUNCH OF BRAINLESS, INARTICULATE, MORONIC LOSERS - GET A LIFE. NO, BETTER YET - JUST SHUT THE FUCK UP - YOU HAVE NOTHING CONSTRUCTIVE TO SAY ANYWAY, YOU NEVER DID, AND NO ONE WANTS TO HEAR YOUR FEEBLEMINDED, ASININE COMMENTS ANYMORE. SARAH RULES.
OH AND FACE THE FACT THAT IF THERE EVER IS A BUFFY MOVIE - BUFFY AND ANGEL END UP TOGETHER FOREVER" and ner ner ner to you too mate. To summise if you want to say something do it without being abusive about an entire section of fandom. At least attempted to be reasonable tends to gets you more cred in the long run that’s if you are actually interested. People like you have ruined the art of debate in the Buffyverse, get B/As an extremely bad name and have done so much to poison me against B/A and Angel as a character that I have to sometimes purposefully remind myself that there is much that is good about them both. Oh and if there is a Buffy movie, which in view of the aforementioned by you SMG flourishing film career is about as likely as a cold day in hell, then Buffy will not end up with either of the ensouled vampies, because Joss don’t do the expected, give in to fan pressure or do sappy endings - live with it. I don’t give a shit about you’re ill-considered ranting and abuse of people who don’t agree with your opinion. So I guess we’re even on that score. Au revoir arsehole.
Ok before nasty little ranter comes back and I feel compelled to have to whack it again. I’d like to take time to give my take on season six with special focus on Spuffy - here goes. SMG’s main gripes I think come from her belief Buffy is acting out of character, something I don’t agree with but can understand. Season six was challenging and lot of folks I can perfectly well understand don’t like because it’s hard to see characters you love behaving so badly and pretty much all of them bar Tara do, the reason being that they are not coping in various different ways. SMG felt she knew Buffy and she didn’t pretty well and also indentified with her a lot and like a lot of people it distrubed her that she behaved so badly but it was not unrealistic.
Let’s start with Buffy. SMG felt she knew Buffy and she didn’t pretty well and also indentified with her a lot and like a lot of people it distrubed her that she behaved so badly but it was not unrealistic given the circumstances. Just after Joyce died and when in the hospital dealing with her body, Dawn, Willow and Xander all wander off leaving Buffy alone with Tara, someone she doesn’t know that well. Tara tells Buffy that like her she has lost her mother and what she says next is extremely important it goes something like "you will probably do and think things that will make you think you are a bad person but you’re not". Tara unlike everyone else around Buffy has gone through what she is going through so is in a unique position to understand her, I think this is why Tara doesn’t condemn Buffy over Spuffy understanding that it is a reaction to the trauma that she has been through. I think it is important to say this first because I believe that a lot of the way Buffy behaves in season six has it’s roots in the aftermath of her mother’s death and if I go to critize her behaviour it’s on the understanding that it’s because she’s traumatised and not coping that she behaves that way not because she’s a bitch. When Buffy dies it is partially because she at this stage can’t bear to lose someone else close to her but it’s also a release from the grind that her life has become, her grief and the responsibility of being a guardian that is too much for such a young woman. It’s not that she doesn’t love Dawn, it’s that it’s hard to know how to take care of her in the right way. Death is her gift to herself as much as Dawn - amongst the speech to Spike about being in heaven she says "I was finished" and she was at peace. Another poster on another forum said that when her friends resurected her they were in effect saying "we love you, we miss you" but "also we need you, we can’t save the world without you" and the problem is that after all she has been through Buffy is too damaged to able to really return their love or meet their needs. "I didn’t want to be loved" she tells Holden Webster and I think that this is not just for Spike but for everyone or more importantly she couldn’t handle the burden of having to care for anyone else (Dawn also had enormous problems feeling that Buffy didn’t care and in a milder way resorted to some less than ideal behaviour to try and get Buffy to notice her) but needed to feel something to stop the crippling numbness.
She was driven to Spike by a desperate need to feel something which had to be extreme to penetrate that numbness but it set different parts of her physche against each other in Freudian terms her Id (lust and fun) wanted Spike and her superego (her conscience) hated both of them for it and responded by influencing her to punish them both in any way she could for. It was worse for Buffy because she didn’t understand why it was happening (at first prompted by Spike she thought she’d become back different) she is also a bit of binary person who has difficultly seeing grey areas so couldn’t respond to Tara’s sympthatic message which something like "it’s ok if you love him he’s gone some good things and it’s ok if you don’t because you’re life’s really hard right now" because to accept either would be have been accepting that grey area. In a sense she was right "with great power comes great responsibility" and she’d seen for herself through Faith where entertaining playing with dark side had got her. Buffy’s fear throughout the last three seasons was becoming a monster and shagging a morally ambigious vampire was never going to help that. His evil actions in "As You Were" and deceipt over them just confirmed what she’d already strongly suspected that she couldn’t trust and couldn’t allow herself to fall for him without it violating everything she stood for. The upshot of it all is she couldn’t love him and it took a while before she could leave him alone, which created a nasty dynamic which she vented on him.
If he didn’t behave nicely towards her it was because she seemed to operating a system of grabbing what she wanted and then shoving him away, often brutally afterwards, what Micheal Stipe would sing of as "Bang and Blame". At the time he didn’t know why but chalked it down to denial (i.e Miss Goody Two Shoes just can’t admit she wants me) and a need to punish herself which was sort of right but not right enough. He had his own desperation to be with her that meant her couldn’t leave her alone even if it was tearing her apart from reasons which as they were to with a conscience he didn’t have he didn’t understand. It got a soul and a lot of pain to truly understand what she was going through on that count, cf. comments about violence inside in "Never Leave Me". Before all the B/A extremists leap down my throat and excuse of me of shoving all the blame for his bad actions onto her some of it was other things to do with him. He had, especially pre-soul, a nasty temper and an overactive libido, although he is a romantic, his whole relationship with Harmony was based on his own need to vent his anger on someone and get laid. He tended to react pre-soul to slights to pride and feelings with anger, violence and barbed remarks back. I think both the fight leading to the first shag and the attempted rape attempt are mis-understood as power plays. The former started as vent and a commentary by the writer Drew Z. Greenberg said that the way Buffy says "out of my way" when he confronts her indicates she’s looking for an excuse to hit him not understanding he can hit back. He says during the fight that he wasn’t looking to hurt her much and I think it’s true it’s just a little pay back for her having a go at him before and if you watch the scene it is her who intiatates the kissing and the sex (for the reasons explained above). The infamous scene in "Seeing Red" is a desperate attempt to from his POV remind her of what she’s missing in order to bring her back to him. I think those who dislike him fail to understand how much being rejected hurt and especially since she said "move on" and when he tried to spat back "didn’t take you long didn’t it" meaning he couldn’t win.
They were both screwed up and operating on different understandings both flawed to really understand each other which ultimately confused both of them and led to them damage each other, it made them both more brutal than they would have been otherwise. What I love is that they had the honesty, bravery and compassion to overcome that and create something a lot more supportive from its ashes.
There are a couple of clarifications I think I need to make about the post regarding s.6 Spuffy one is that I ended up saying SMG didn’t understand Buffy when I actually meant to say in a lot of ways she did. The second is that I think Spike’s intiation of the fight that led to the first sex in "Smashed" was probably motivated by a desire to be noticed as well as a vent of anger. In a sense it was a resistance to her desire to ignore him which he couldn’t have coped with a sort of combined "I’m here deal with me" and "you ain’t so perfect you know" .
While I’m waiting to be posted up so to speak I think Michael although intelligent and responable may have got a few wrong ends of stick or at least my interpretation is slightly different to his. For starters - as said before a lot Spike’s nasty comments come as responses to Buffy’s - for every ’you came back wrong’ there is a response to ’can’t a man change’ that goes ’you’re not a man you’re a thing’ - a lot of the barbed remarks are defensive in both cases. There are inferences that Dru and Spike relationship although loving contained BDSM elements too so that stuff does not come out of the blue. The handcuffs I saw as being floated as a suggestion which Buffy rejects and it’s all left at that, not as an inreference that she is tied up in any way - the fact she’s not keen means it’s dropped.
More fundamentally - the comments in "Get It Done" have to be seen in content and they don’t speak about Buffy’s romantic or sexually preferences but her frustration at being the only one amongst the people around her who is not holding back it has to seen as "do I have to do everything around here" rant because she’s worried and annoyed that no one else seems to be up for the fight. Her comments to Spike are nasty but they come from a frustration that he has completely missed the fact that the "ride over" speech might apply to him as well as everyone else. In that context she’s saying she needs someone who will actually be effective as a warrior which is not what she has now. I think that her feelings towards him are actually very complicated and are further complicated by the fact that none of her friends like or trust the guy - I find it interesting that when talking about to Amanda she uses the word confusion twice. He certainly means something to her which is geunine and heartfelt - the million dollar question is what exactly. I always thought she did care for Riley as her concern for his welfare during season four showed but thinking about it you have to wonder if there was always a certain passion missing that although she liked being with him, it was because she saw him as a good solid guy to have around. Their relationship was severely hampered by it becoming unequal in season five - that the removal of his powers gave him hang-ups about his ability to keep pace with her. The loss of mission hurt him and I think he’s a bit like Jack in "Lost" in needed to be the strong one who takes care of business and couldn’t handle being the junior partner. Buffy maybe likes to have someone around she feels can hold their own too and trample through the graveyards with - you get the impression she does quite like having someone else at her side and someone who she can talk warrior stuff with - I think someone like a younger version of Giles could work for her as a future partner. Her love life tends to be muddied by the fact that she tends have difficulty acknowledging her own dark side - that she would like to think she’s a nice girl with a nicely controllable libido who wants an equally nice clean-cut boy to live behind a white picket fence with when she does have a libido, a temper and probably a desire for someone who is a little bit more exotic than the boy next door types she thinks she likes because she should.
I’m very glad I have the last comment on this. And its going to be pretty funny too, since half of you all typed books in responce to this article. I am just going to say a few lines to sum it all up. First off, READ THE DAMN ARTICLE. Sarah says the only reason she felt degraded, was because the scenes with Spike were going into "bondage". No longer just steamy sex—now they were actually perverted bondage ones. As an actress she felt bad doing these scenes—why ? Because she knows half of the BTVS fans are kids and teenagers. And not to mention, as an actress, her family and friends were probably also watching the scenes she filmed. Maybe she felt like a porn star when she was filming the bondage scenes ? Which is very ironic, seeing as now she actually plays the role of a pornstar in Southland Tales. I don’t hate her for speaking her mind, and I don’t really bow down to her for it either. Who gives a shit how hot and sexy James Marsters is. Sarah & James had a relationship like brother and sister. Try filming a fake bondage scene with your best guy friend—kinda awkword, wouldn’t you think so ?
In the words of Spike "BLOODY HELL". I’ve never even wasted time reading stupid fragments of articles online or in trashy magazines for this reason : 99% of the time they are absolute bullshit, the quotes are far from legitimate and hello, we could all find something more constructive to do with out time. But as a huge Sarah AND Buffy fan (because, no they aren’t one and the same, one is a CHARACTER and one is a PERSON) who accidentally stumbled across this page, I think I need to put my five cents worth into this debate. SMG worked her ass off for this series for 7 years. And while she did get paid shit loads of cash for it, that really isn’t the point. If you wanna get all technical about who earns what and what a ridiculously high paid industry show biz is, one could point out that plenty of other actresses get paid a lot more than SMG did in Buffy for doing a freaking lot less. She may have had a stunt double, but common, most of them do and that doesn’t mean that Sarah didn’t partake in many fighting scenes, hence her brown belt in martial arts being such an important factor in her role. As for what she may or may not have said about feeling degraded by S&M type sex scenes in Buffy, I think she has more right than anyone to feel that way and to voice her opinion, since it was her and not any of us that had to perform those scenes. I think if most of you were put into the position she was, you’d feel the same way. And wasn’t half the point of these scenes that Buffy felt degraded and unworthy of love ? Well shit, did you ever think that maybe those scenes were so realistic that some of the degredation rubbed off on the people playing the roles ?! She’s not the only person to have made comments, James Marsters had things to say about the rape scene in "Seeing Red". And so they both fucking should, we have no concept of what it must be like to act out scenes like that. SO FOR FUCK’S SAKE, STOP RAGGING ON SMG, SHE ISN’T SHITTING ON THE SHOW THAT MADE HER FAMOUS, SHE HAS FOND MEMORIES AND MUCH GRATITUDE FOR THE SHOW THAT PROVIDED HER WITH THE OPPORTUNITIES SHE HAS BEEN GIVEN. SHE HAS NEVER ONCE SAID SHE HATED THE SHOW OR HER CHARACTER OR ANYTHING ABOUT IT. SHE’S A TALENTED ACTRESS AND A LOVELY HUMAN BEING, SO HOW ABOUT YA’LL STOP TRASHING HER IF YOU’RE SUCH "BIG FANS" ???!!! HOW ABOUT TALKING UP SOMETHING THAT ACTUALLY MATTERS, LIKE HER CHARITY WORK. SARAH DESERVES A LITTLE RESPECT AND SOME DAMN PRIVACY. SHE HAS GIVEN US BUFFY AS WELL AS OTHER FANTASTIC ROLES, SO JUST BE CONTENT WITH THAT AND LEAVE HER BE. SHE DESERVES TO HAVE A LIFE AND A VOICE AS MUCH AS ANYONE.
Ger over it. She had every right to fell that way. She was the one acting out those disgusting scenes. When the show first started Buffy was an innocent 16 year old virgin. She went from that to whore in a matter of six seasons. It was a shock to me those scenes with her and Spike. She never went down on Angel, or Parker, or Riley, only Spike. It grossed me out, but I couldn’t look way. Shame on me.....
Sarah Michelle Gellar is a beautiful, talented and fantastic actress ! she is a nice person ! i mean really nice, if you all want to bag her then fine. it just shows how jealous you are that you can’t be as beautiful and gifted as her. Sure, she did get payed a lot of money, bonus ! But without Sarah, there would have been no 2nd season ! She brought the show to life, she’s my idol, and a wonderful role model so back off, if she felt degraded, then she felt degraded, ok ?! I back her decision to be truthful and share with all of us, and most importantly, she did the sex scenes anyway, even though she felt degraded, she is a beautiful person, with a beautiful personality, and we should back her in whatever she does, because she does all this to please us, not to whine ! so get over yourselves. Sarah is wonderful and she will always have me backing her up.
we love you Sarah !
I’m not ragging on her but even taken out of context you have to understand why comments like that would rattle some fans. I don’t doubt her dedication to the role or her skills as an actress but I don’t like the way she’s taken to having a go at season six, especially since the anti-Spuffy camps have taken it as a vindictation of their beliefs.
Good shows change, evolve, grow - even if season six as a failure it was an interesting one and it should be given some credit for that. Buffy wasn’t going to remain 16 forever and the show needed to reflect that.
Ok, Buffy is one of my fave tv shows (obviously, I’m posting a reply on the biggest fan site) but anyways, I have a feeling somebody claimed they read this, or they read it in a tabloid that lies about everything and changed the name of the magazine. Joss Whedon would never have let Sarah get hurt, and she herself got mad at members of the crew when a guest star was hurt on set. If she really was hurt, she would have left long before she did.
And whoever the hell said she wasn’t trying in season 7 is just really stupid. They aren’t worth describing more than that.
Well I guess for Sarah and James "Buffy the vampire Slayer’" end must of been a relief ,from all the bruises and degrading scenes..Thats why Sarah Gellar I guess wanted out..with out her the show could not go on...You could say Sarah had the last say in what happens to Buffy...even if during the episodes "Seeing red "etc she had no right in having to do those scenes her and James Hated..James Marsters going into "Angel" was a blessing ,he said he enjoyed being on" Angel" because it was more relaxed and fun..He admitted on many talk shows he thought it ended too soon and could of gone for many more years ,if money wasnt an issue ending the show untime-ly...Well most of the cast of ANGEL & BUFFY have gone on to better things..and Im happy for them......I still Love watching Buffy, but still the scene with Spike trying to rape buffy is still too much for me..I still fast forward that part in the bathroom.So if it is bad for me to look at ,imagine it from their point of view..it would of been traumatic...I dont blame sarah and James for feeling that way....
I avoid watching it and on the few occassions I have seen it again (last time when trying to re-watch the Warren/Xander scene in the episode - bad chapter markation meant I couldn’t watch one without the other) I find it a horrible experience. If such is my experience as a viewer I can understand how traumatic to was for both actors to do, especially considering their emotional connections to the roles. JM always backed up the writers before saying it was necessary and I think Spike had to do something really awful to the person he loved to bring it home to him that what he lacked would lead him to damage what he loved and ultimately himself. In creating a complex and ambigious character like Spike the writers made their job really hard as they had to find a way of making him ’good’ (he had too many fans to remain evil and some of them were too young - as he was sending out a too morally ambigious message being left the way he was and killing him would have pissed off too many people - probably including me) without violating their own morality (i.e human life sacred, vamps are automatically evil unless souled so Buffy’s slayerage off them is NOT murder).
Kat, I just want to compliment you on your post on April 06 concerning the nature of Buffy & Spike’s relationship. It’s probably the most intelligent and level headed analysis of them, and particularly s6 that I’ve seen, taking the time and effort to look below the surface and into both their respective feelings, needs and motivations rather than yet another of the endless knee-jerk reactions to what is difficult, darker material. Thank you.
Thank David it’s nice to hear someone appreciates you although I think reading a lot of different viewpoints about the situation including some of which were pretty intelligent in their own right helped me form my own.
Buffy has sex with Spike in "Smashed" because he can kill her again. It is as simple as that. While Buffy may have "loved" the "William" part of Spike that she saw in "Intervention" and such, she is not attracted to puppy-dog Spike.
I believe that Spike gave her a choice in "Smashed" : "We are either going to kill each other or have sex."
In "Get It Done", Buffy says something like, "You keep holding back, you might as well walk out that door". And she is having unshed tears when she says, "I’m no where near him." For the former comment, she is also talking about his holding back his passion and want for her. He instead of making out and having sex with her is staying away from her except to help train the Potentials and chaining himself in the basement. I believe they had sex after "Get It Done". In "Storyteller", they walk in the kitchen together and Wood, while possessed, says that she is screwing Spike. For the latter comment, Spike is no longer "the man she fell in love with." He is a shell of that man. She wants her Spike back. So he kills that demon in "Get It Done" and smokes again, instead of begging for forgiveness from Wood, tosses him into the shed wall and moves to kill him and then tells Buffy that if he feels threatened by anyone, they’re dead, and wears the coat until it is destroyed in "The Girl in Question".
Buffy begins to hang out with Spike because she likes him. This is obvious in "Afterlife" to "Once More With Feeling." Given her reactions to his song in "OMWF", it doesn’t seem that Buffy thought she was simply hanging with him because she cannot tell her friends about her problems. She thinks them hanging out is like them dating. Now, it is SPIKE that is responsible for the rough sex. He says in "Rest In Peace" "You know, you got a willing slave. And you just love to play the thought that you might misbehave. But until you do, I’m telling you stay away." Spike is not interesting in (from "Something Blue") "making sweet love" to her.
So plays her game with him after "OMWF" but this is her "accepted" form of "courting" him. She would feel wrong having a courtship with him like she did with Angel or Riley or even Parker. She probably partly calls him a "thing" and an "evil, disgusting thing" because Spike is not much changed. The guy gambles for kittens. While that may have been "cute" in "Life Serial", it probably no longer is given in "Tabula Rasa" he describes himself as Angel.
So... yeah. Moving forward.
She breaks up with him in "As You Were" because she needs more in a relationship than just lust and great sex. See wants more from him.
As for Sarah.
"Dead Things" was disturbing. Being on top of a handcuffed James — if that was her — would have been disturbing. The Balcony Scene was as well especially given the angst she had to play.
By the way, about all the "Dead Things" sex scenes with Spike could have been her imagination.
Her going to him in the crypt and the alley scene were real, but everything else didn’t need to be.
And, hey, she dreams of the rug scene and such in her later dream and there was no else on the Balcony and the stuff Spike says to her doesn’t make much sense if that wasn’t her daydreaming it.
So that in itself could have disturbed Sarah.
About the oral, that is something that guys like and girls do. It seemed VERY odd to me that it is suggested that Buffy and Riley only have missionary and "vanilla" sex. She says in an episode that she might wear outfits for him, but I didn’t buy that they had that kind of sexual relationship. Spike calls the guy "Captain Cardboard" and we only saw them doing missionary.
I think you’re only seeing part of the picture here Micheal - I guess we all bring our own subtext to things though.
"Buffy has sex with Spike in "Smashed" because he can kill her again. It is as simple as that"
No it really isn’t - a lot of it is to do with her need to feel some sort of passion which is a need at that time of her life. He throws a similar accusation at her in "Never Leave Me" to which she says "I don’t hate like that" and I don’t think she does usually - she did at that dark time in her life but she isn’t usually that callous.
"While Buffy may have "loved" the "William" part of Spike that she saw in "Intervention" and such, she is not attracted to puppy-dog Spike" - I don’t think she’s sure what she wants - I think she does and doesn’t want both sides of him but won’t admit to wanting the bad side. I think she’s attracted to the ambivalence and the fact he’s capable of being rough and tender at the same time but she doesn’t like the idea of ambivalence. It confuses her - she likes to think of the world in black and white and it takes a long time to really understand him because he isn’t ever totally either.
"I believe that Spike gave her a choice in "Smashed" : "We are either going to kill each other or have sex."" - I don’t, I think he let himself believe she’d come back wrong enough to be with him. I don’t think killing her was ever the intention.
"I believe they had sex after "Get It Done". In "Storyteller", they walk in the kitchen together and Wood, while possessed, says that she is screwing Spike. For the latter comment, Spike is no longer "the man she fell in love with." He is a shell of that man. She wants her Spike back. " - I don’t believe anything happened for a moment then - it contradicts everything we see on screen from her talking to Willow to the fact she ends up talking to Willow because she’s sitting in her bedroom being very upset about the way she treated everyone and beset by doubts she’s made the wrong decision. As for the possessed Wood comments that’s one part the First throwing her past (i.e of last year) in her face and one part - Wood’s suspiscions that they’ve done it at some point and there is obviously a bond that is to do with some degree of physical attraction to each other - Buffy is deluded that she is concealing the truth whereas it’s obvious to everyone but then she has a tendancy to ignore the unsettling and confusing.
"So he kills that demon in "Get It Done" and smokes again, instead of begging for forgiveness from Wood, tosses him into the shed wall and moves to kill him and then tells Buffy that if he feels threatened by anyone, they’re dead, and wears the coat until it is destroyed in "The Girl in Question"." - I think a lot of that is to do with being fed up with having his mind played with and a realisation that he needs the less nice side of himself to not get stomped on. His coat has become a bit of a talisman of his strength to him IMO.
"Buffy begins to hang out with Spike because she likes him. This is obvious in "Afterlife" to "Once More With Feeling." Given her reactions to his song in "OMWF", it doesn’t seem that Buffy thought she was simply hanging with him because she cannot tell her friends about her problems. She thinks them hanging out is like them dating." - I don’t agree she’s treating him as a friend at this stage but also someone she can tell things to she can’t tell her friends but also someone she can do things like get drunk around. Even at this stage it’s to do with kicking off and misbehaving in a way she couldn’t have done around her friends without experiencing their disaproval at least in her own mind.
"Now, it is SPIKE that is responsible for the rough sex" - No, it’s BOTH of them, it takes two to tango as the phrase goes - he may have taught her a few nasty tricks but it is HER who grabs him and wraps herself around him like a pole - she isn’t the passive little girly being forcefully seduced she likes to see herself as
"He says in "Rest In Peace" "You know, you got a willing slave. And you just love to play the thought that you might misbehave. But until you do, I’m telling you stay away." Spike is not interesting in (from "Something Blue") "making sweet love" to her" - he pretty much interested in being with her anyway he can - I don’t think the guy is just a thug here, he’s more a bit of horny so and so who doesn’t mind it rough and is willing to put up with a lot if he’s close to her but I don’t think he’s only drawn to the brutality of all I think her statements arguing that are to do with her refusal to accept his ambivalence that he can be a monster with geunine feelings and denial over what she’d doing after all it’s more acceptable to beat up a masochist than a guy who might have feelings beyond that it makes you less of an abuser - and he’s not wrong about her being attracted to the idea of letting go of her inhibitions.
"So plays her game with him after "OMWF" but this is her "accepted" form of "courting" him. She would feel wrong having a courtship with him like she did with Angel or Riley or even Parker. She probably partly calls him a "thing" and an "evil, disgusting thing" because Spike is not much changed. The guy gambles for kittens. While that may have been "cute" in "Life Serial", it probably no longer is given in "Tabula Rasa" he describes himself as Angel.
So... yeah. Moving forward.
She breaks up with him in "As You Were" because she needs more in a relationship than just lust and great sex. See wants more from him." - I agree with that but at the end it is the realisation of this which makes him face he needs to change for them to have any sort of geunine relationship, even if it’s only friendship.
Wow ! I am highly impressed. I’ve read all your comments, Michael, and they’re quite spellbinding — if one could say so. You’ve come across so many excellent & brilliant points regarding the Spuffy couple, and Buffy’s & Spike’s relationship. A thing you’ve mentioned above, that I couldn’t help but agree with you completely is :
And I have believed Buffy cries in Tara’s lap not because she was using Spike but because she felt she actually did love Spike and it is because he was USING HER and did not anymore put her on a pedestal like Angel and Riley and Season 5 Spike did.
That was exactly whatI felt, as well. It didn’t have the sense that Buffy’d be crying ’cause she was using Spike. When Tara asked if Buffy loved him, Buffy’s expression completely changed. Even more, when she says : "It is ! It’s wrong. I’m wrong. Tell me that I’m wrong, please." It didn’t seem she’d be crying like that because she felt bad for using Spike. In a way, she couldn’t believe what *she* was feeling for him. And she also noticed that the one who was using the other, was actually Spike - using her. They completely changed places.
The way Spike started treating Buffy after he first slept with her in Smashed, was almost in an entirely different way. He didn’t quite have the respect he first had at the beginning of the 6th Season, he evn said "So, what now ? You go back to treating me like dirt till the next time you get an itch you can’t scratch ? Well, forget it. Last night changed things. I’m done being your whipping boy.". So, in a sense, yes, he just simply wanted to sleep with Buffy, to see what it was like. After he got what he wanted, he could start acting like his real self.
Gee... I am so disappointed.... I used to love Sarah... But I guess I didn’t really knew her at all... Recently I’ve been reading stuff about her, and things that she said... I am shocked !! First of all ,All she is know, is because off ’’buffy’’ !! If she has any fame (and lots of money), she owns it to that show, so she should be congratulating it, and not spiting into the fountain she drank ! Second, James Marsters is gorgeous ! Thousands of women whore (and still are) dying to do those scenes with him !! Witch, by the way, wasn’t all she said ! Where the hell did that drama came from ?? She was fully closed !!! All she had to do was some faces !! Therefore she is an ACTRISS !! come on ??!!Finally... That woman did taekwondo ( a really violent martial art, known by its kicks)since she was nine !!! So how come she is complaining about bruises ?? Suddenly, she became all Barbie ??
Well, even after her behavior, I must say that I would still like her to play buffy, only because I really like the show...
obs> Sorry for any mistakes, but I am not american
i loved every eposode of buffy more than the others once more with feeling i think im going to sing james marsters song let me rest in peace for the xfactor and walk through the fire please come vist my school hereford,wyebridge,class 7spt by the way my name is hannah dyche by the way i love spiks hair (blondey bear)
James Marsters is the most beautiful man I have ever laid my eyes on ! I would take SMG place anytime, ecspecially in those scenes. I thought his eyes showed compassion and love.
I’m going to try to look at this objectively.
To all the people saying "oh my god I’d love to make out with James or David so she should stop complaining". That is an absolutely ridiculous comment because she isn’t a little teenager watching him on screen. She knows him and they’re probably friends so if she wanted to have sex with him she would have better options than in front of a room full of people and cameras.
As for the comment that Buffy was forced into sex with spike because he could hurt her again, you should keep in mind that it’s her that kisses him in Smashed. He only encourages her to feel whatever passion is inside her instead of holding back and she does.
I think what we have here is poor choice of words. If she had said the sex scenes were "difficult" or "challenging" I don’t think there would have been such a big discussion. It’s the fact she used the term "degrading" which really is a slap in the writers face and totally unjustified. I’ve never been a huge fan of SMG and watch the show DESPITE her not BECAUSE of her but I’m sure those scenes would be hard for her. Still, as an actress it is your job to portray the character and if Buffy was at a point in her life where she needed to feel that then you have to leave yourself behind and just go with it. If she was a true professional she would realize that it’s not HER doing those things, it’s the character and it’s her job to do whatever is required of the character.
I think buffy gave sarah michelle gellar her fame. I think she knows this. I think if she didn’t like doing something in the script she could have talked to them about it. But I also did not think it was degrading watching it on tv. It was where buffy was in her life at the time, she wanted to feel, she hated her self... I think she knew before she started the show that she was going to have to fight alot. But I also think that she should be able to complain too. I used to have a very phsically challenging job and I had bruises too but I continued to work there and I enjoyed my job, but when I came home to my husband I wanted to feel like I could vent some because I was sore. Just because this was her big break doesn’t mean she shouldn’t ever be alowed to complain.
so to dee, jennifer kate viper and especially anonymous you all need to shut your fucking mouths. i dont agree that sarah is a bad actress, but i do agree that she is a stuck up slutty bitch. She was never naked w/ james, and she was such a slut in cruel intentions and havard. dont hear her complaining about her sluty/gay behavior in those. NAKED. Shes insulting the show that made her famous, cause she never got a role better than that one.Anonymous, she is also insulting her costar, james marsters. I dont care what u sayabout swoony james fans. hes hot, hes talented, and i would feel honored to work with him. Theres no reason for her to consider her scenes w/ him any more sluty than most of her other roles. boo hoo, your pain sarah. your in a show where your character is the slayer ! what did u think it was gonna be, rosanne ? I am a huge buffy fan, in contrast to jennifer’s comment. how i feel about the actress as a person has no influence if i like the show, so fuck off. If she didn’t like the sex, for some reason, say something. dont run your mouth later, insulting everyone who thought the show was great as it was. Didnt hear james complaing like a little bitch. he was the naked randy one ! though i didnt mind, thats not the point. so sarah, and all the other bitches who posted shit, supporting sarah, i hope u read this. feel free to cuss me out, cause i’ll cuss right back, cause im right. Sarah, if one season of sex scenes bothered you, heres what i say. go back in time, dont take the role of buffy, so you dont break a nail, take the other movies youv done, and enjoy your crappy little apartment that you live in, where all the guys fuck u like they did in your other movies. i like buffy, cant stand sarah, cant stand u anonymous kate, etc. suck it fuckers.
okay spikelover you seriously need to get a life instead of starting bitch fights with people online over a 4 year old article. and if you would take some time and actually read what i wrote you would notice that i agreed with a lot of what you said. I clearly said that I don’t like sarah and she shouldn’t have complained because it’s her job and it’s what got her where she is. But at the same time it’s ridiculous to tell me to fuck off for writing one sentence saying i can sympathize with her in some small way. The entire point of my post was to create a less biased post than the kind of shit you spew out. So what if people want to share their respect for an actress they like ? You’re absolutely pathetic to write some massive post where all you do is swear at people for sharing their opinions...which are far more resonable and thought out than your own. So please feel free to "cuss right back" because you’re a pathetic moron.
and also you might consider doing a little research before running YOUR mouth off. Sarah and James both complained and asked the writers to remove the scenes because they didn’t feel comfortable doing them. They were told they would be thrown into a law suit if they didn’t comply because it’s part of their contracts. James has expressed many times how horrified he was to do some of the scenes he performed. So just shut up about things you know jack shit about. You’re a fucking idiot.
Spikelover...you are probably the most brainless person I have ever encountered. I am agreeing 100% with my friend anonymous here. Supporting anonymous, from what I remember James Marsters did complain WITH Sarah Michelle Gellar about the content in many of the sexual scenes they filmed. I am also pretty sure Sarah did not get RAPED in any of her other so called "slutty" movies. Now ms. "i’m a little stuck up bitch with no life", i will point out another little mistake you made. I’m pretty sure the contract Sarah signed for the show didn’t mention she was going to get sexually abused 6 seasons in, and calling her a little bitch for complaining is ridiculous ! Put yourself in her position smart ass ! Getting assaulted in front of millions of viewers on camera ? I don’t think "I don’t care, James Marsters is hot !" will make you ignore the fact you just got raped. She walked away with life-long bruises and that is a tough thing to do. As an actor myself I can completely understand where she is coming from when she complains about this. So maybe you want to re-think what you just said in your paragraph there asshole. You clearly have no fucking idea what you are talking about. And "Suck it fuckers" ? .... are you retarded ?
welll i understand that sometimes actors are force to do things they’re not really comfortable about
but i mean come on ! get over it. your just acting out a character
it’s not you yourself, learn how to distance yourself from the character ur acting out !!
and besides what’s so bad abt. her attempted rape scene
she is fully clothed and got toss around and had her front ripped a lil bit
wat’s so degradin abt that ?
she isn’t shot butt naked or one of her boobs is peeking out
also the scenes hardly qualifies as being bondage
the only bondage thing they came close to is having spike hand cuffed
so if there’s anyone who shud be complaining abt bondage its jm
and i don’t understand how ppl. go about thinking that the sex scenes in buffy are violent
coz i don’t see them slapping or whipping each other out
so smg shud really jus shut up !!
i wud have understand if she used embarassed or uncomfortable
but degraded is too strong of a word
IMO smg shud feel degraded not bec. of the sex scenes she’s been into
but bec. buffy is insecure of her lovelife so she’s takin advantage of how spike feels for her
by getting a gud f*** from him and keepin him by her side xcept after the attempted rape and when spike did it with anya
let’s face it spike is jus a friend with benefits in buffy’s eyes
when spike is minutes away from being toasted to dust
buffy finally told spike she luvs him
but she shud have known better than to take spike for a fool
when spike called out her bluff
she didn’t said anything back
meaning spike is right
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